Eloi
Member
Well, I believe all religions have at least demonstrable hypothetical situations (parables) to expound upon the values posited, even if the beliefs themselves aren't presented as from the view point of historical narratives.
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Religion and Lack of Religion
- Thread starter Harlequin
- Start date
Well, I believe all religions have at least demonstrable hypothetical situations (parables) to expound upon the values posited, even if the beliefs themselves aren't presented as from the view point of historical narratives.
Michi
Mystical Furball
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- any
Doesn't Buddhism have the actual life story, as well as the teachings and writings, of Siddhartha Guatama?
Tarvos
helt plötsligt blev det tyst
because it's not like they have a definitive book like the Qu'ran or the Bible, it's more or less a story that's been interpreted in a million ways and the whole catch 22 is that they're not requiring you to interpret it strictly either - and if you don't care about it it's your good right cos you can still be a Buddhist
Eloi
Member
Um. Buddha's enlightenment and expression thereof is the very cornerstone of it. Hence, Buddhism. The reason why they don't have just one book is because you can base arguments better on authority and limit thinking when its less eclectic, which would defeat the purpose of a religion based on independent enlightenment.
hopeandjoy
yan ya yan ya yaa iii yaaa
Phantom
Uh, I didn't do it.
Sorry would start a new topic, but this was still on page 1 so I thought I might as well bump it up a bit.
I read an interesting newspaper article about atheism today. I can't find a data copy, but it was basically saying that atheism is on the rise worldwide. And that internet is a major factor in the rise. But also that it is merely an internet trend, some would say even an internet meme. Opinions? I thought this was interesting.
I read an interesting newspaper article about atheism today. I can't find a data copy, but it was basically saying that atheism is on the rise worldwide. And that internet is a major factor in the rise. But also that it is merely an internet trend, some would say even an internet meme. Opinions? I thought this was interesting.
Starship Trooper
Citizen
I may be a bit biased here, since I'm an atheist myself, but I think it makes sense. The vast majority of a person's religious thinking, in my experience, tends to be decided by the beliefs of their family, friends, people in their neighborhood...makes sense, since those are going to be people they trust, and they don't really have as much exposure to outside sources unless they go looking for it. The internet, though, makes it a lot easier to find this information - in fact, you'll probably end up reading about it whether you want to or not. In fact, before I started talking with atheists on the internet, they seemed like incomprehensible bogeymen to me, something bad that was out there that I'd never really deal with.
Tarvos
helt plötsligt blev det tyst
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- he/him
I'm not sure 'merely' is a word that should be used here. It is an internet trend in the sense that the internet facilitates the kind of research that might lead one to question the faith they were brought up with, and it's a meme in the sense that any semi-cohesive group of people with something in common will share a set of memes. It's clearly not a meme in the sense that most people on the internet tend to use the word, though.
So, yes, I agree, to an extent, but I don't think this reflects negatively on the process like (I think) the article you're citing is trying to imply.
JinxElite
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!
Okay, so here's my view on religion. I may get hated on for this. I don't give two fucks.
I'm NOT religious. I rather dislike religion, especially Christianity. I have endured it for the first fourteen years of my life, and I know where I stand as of now. My problems with it are numerous. Here's a few.
1: Hypocrisy.
Every time I am forced to go to church, I hear and see this all around. A few examples? Well, they say "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and I know there's something about not judging people somewhere in the Bible. Of course, we all know humans are predictably hating, loathing creatures, so this won't be strictly obeyed. But the thing that's so wrong about it is that they follow it up every time with all sorts of crap about other religions. Things like "they're fools" or "they don't know what they're talking about" run abundant in conversations and sermons and such, and it pisses me off to the point where people get a little scared and uneasy being around me because I'm about to start frothing at the mouth. They want you to be virtuous and kind, yet they judge and talk about others so rudely and with so little foundation for it? I bet they don't know anything about half the people they so impolitely, hypocritically talk about behind their backs.
2: Inconsistencies.
You'd think that people who identify themselves to one religion could just have one version of their one religious book and be one, unified religion? NOPE. Christians have manipulated, incorrectly interpreted, and lied about Bibles for a long, long time. And with all the different versions, it's hard to tell which denomination is right, if any! I personally think that if you're gonna be religious, you should pick something and stick with it.
3: Propaganda.
Here you can find some of the different types of propaganda. I want you to go there, with an open mind, while thinking about religion, and see if some of the religious aspects and things commonly preached in your church or place of worship fall into any of those categories. Some religious people are clever.
4. Dinosaurs and evolution.
If I have to explain all of the evidence and logic behind this claim, and what the argument is, you're a moron. I tend to be a little more logic-oriented and clear-thinking than faith-oriented and emotional.
And that's a small part of my rant on religion. If you want more, I have it.
Don't hate me.
Don't harass me.
I'm NOT religious. I rather dislike religion, especially Christianity. I have endured it for the first fourteen years of my life, and I know where I stand as of now. My problems with it are numerous. Here's a few.
1: Hypocrisy.
Every time I am forced to go to church, I hear and see this all around. A few examples? Well, they say "Love thy neighbor as thyself" and I know there's something about not judging people somewhere in the Bible. Of course, we all know humans are predictably hating, loathing creatures, so this won't be strictly obeyed. But the thing that's so wrong about it is that they follow it up every time with all sorts of crap about other religions. Things like "they're fools" or "they don't know what they're talking about" run abundant in conversations and sermons and such, and it pisses me off to the point where people get a little scared and uneasy being around me because I'm about to start frothing at the mouth. They want you to be virtuous and kind, yet they judge and talk about others so rudely and with so little foundation for it? I bet they don't know anything about half the people they so impolitely, hypocritically talk about behind their backs.
2: Inconsistencies.
You'd think that people who identify themselves to one religion could just have one version of their one religious book and be one, unified religion? NOPE. Christians have manipulated, incorrectly interpreted, and lied about Bibles for a long, long time. And with all the different versions, it's hard to tell which denomination is right, if any! I personally think that if you're gonna be religious, you should pick something and stick with it.
3: Propaganda.
Here you can find some of the different types of propaganda. I want you to go there, with an open mind, while thinking about religion, and see if some of the religious aspects and things commonly preached in your church or place of worship fall into any of those categories. Some religious people are clever.
4. Dinosaurs and evolution.
If I have to explain all of the evidence and logic behind this claim, and what the argument is, you're a moron. I tend to be a little more logic-oriented and clear-thinking than faith-oriented and emotional.
And that's a small part of my rant on religion. If you want more, I have it.
Don't hate me.
Don't harass me.
Teh Ebil Snorlax
izombie, uzombie, weallzombie
These seem like pretty silly reasons to hate religion in general. Not all religious people are hypocrites and there are plenty of areligious hypocrites. Similarly, not all religions are inconsistent, not all of them utilise propaganda and not all of them disbelieve in evolution.
Also, 99.9% of the people who participate in this forum are calm, reasonable people who enjoy intelligent and reasoned discourse, you don't need to be so defensive.
This made me lol like a madman. It sounds like you're talking about mice or seagulls or something.
(I'm fairly sure that the proportion of religious people who are clever is about the same as the proportion of areligious people who are clever.)
Coroxn
An extremely equivalent exchange.
It's pretty clear from the outset that you have a bias outlook on these matters. Whatever personal experience you've had with Religion, you should remember it is personal, and try not to make generalisations. Not that you've made any yet, but it's pretty clear that you will.
This is not every sermon in the world. I've been to masses in several places in Ireland, and one in France. Whilst I have no doubt that many priests preach like this, but this is where you have to understand it isn't Christianity as a whole. Whether my experiences are the exceptions or the rule, I'm unsure. But I have just two points to make on this subject-
1:Your anger in this is completely justified, but as I said above, the blatant hatred of other religions is never something I have ever experienced. Keep in mind that your experiences are not everyone's experiences, that not every sermon is an attack on other religions and that not every religious man is a man to be held in contempt.
2:Hypocrisy is something we are all guilty of. We all have a double standard, we all get mad at others for doing things we do ourselves. Not that this lessens what they're doing, but just keep in mind.
They aren't allowed to interpret the Bible in their own way? Of all your arguments here, this seems the least justified. I don't see how belonging to one particular denomination is an "inconsistency". That isn't the right word at all. Lutherism, for example, was started because a priest named Martin Luther heavily disagreed with the way the church was run (with sins such as Simony, Nepotism, Pluralism and Absenteeism, and the selling of Indulgences) and decided to break against it and try and capture only what god intended. This isn't "inconstant", I would consider it very noble, actually.
"Some religious people are clever."
As in, the majority are stupid?
Faith=/=stupidity. It's a mistake to think lesser of someone because of their views. It's actually an incredibly insulting thing you just said. The lone belief that there is a god should not be viewed as the opinions of idiots. Yes, some religious people are clever. Some are stupid. Some non-religious people are clever, some are stupid.
As per your main point, I recognise none of those propaganda being used against me in a church. Your church is not the only church, and the generalisation that all religious people will try to persuade everyone else to become religious themselves via propaganda should be gotten rid of. I have encountered these techniques elsewhere, and in defense of religion on the internet, but this is not everywhere.
There are Christians who believe in evolution and science. Maybe you have encountered them, but they are not every Christian. You should also try to be more understanding-yes, evolution is logical fact with lots of evidence behind it when you look at it, but there are many people who grew up with the notion of Intelligent Design and are scared when that notion is questioned. Insulting them won't help-the best way to go is to educate. Refusing to do so will not help the problem.
As is said before, this is an open-minded forum. You don't need to be defensive. I hope you can see that those these problems are evident, they do not permeate the entirety of Christianity and religion.
hopeandjoy
yan ya yan ya yaa iii yaaa
I will point out that even the Vatican recognizes evolution. It's mostly American Fundies and non-denominationals that are bad about it from Christianity's side.
Keep in mind that, like every other group, most religious people are perfectly nice people who feel that religion had honestly helped them. My mother, for instance, came back to the church after seeing a documentary on psychics and marveling at the world. She is religious because of science, as odd as it sounds. Now, she's just left the Catholic church for the Episcopal/Anglican Church over gay rights and the way the American Catholic Council of Bishops courts the Republicans, but she's a perfectly decent, religious women (even if she does think my atheism is caused by the intolerant people of my area).
If you don't want to be discriminated and cross-examined over your beliefs, don't do the same to others. Only engage people who are hurting others with their actions. The Golden Rule, and all that.
Keep in mind that, like every other group, most religious people are perfectly nice people who feel that religion had honestly helped them. My mother, for instance, came back to the church after seeing a documentary on psychics and marveling at the world. She is religious because of science, as odd as it sounds. Now, she's just left the Catholic church for the Episcopal/Anglican Church over gay rights and the way the American Catholic Council of Bishops courts the Republicans, but she's a perfectly decent, religious women (even if she does think my atheism is caused by the intolerant people of my area).
If you don't want to be discriminated and cross-examined over your beliefs, don't do the same to others. Only engage people who are hurting others with their actions. The Golden Rule, and all that.
- Pronoun
- she/her
Okay, first of all - tone it down, please. There's absolutely no reason to be uncivil. Also, I don't get why people would hate/harass you (you seem to be doing more hating than anyone else here), but if you don't really want to extrapolate on your opinions further, you're posting in the wrong forum. This isn't a forum for thinly-veiled flaming, just so you know. :)