Spanking

[Jetx]

spanking is wrong becouse sadistic parents with weird fetishes would just do it to enjoy themselves....

I think a parent that messed up would probably do such things anyway.

I was hit very lightly sometimes when I did something bad as a child. I am a total wuss now, but I don't think that is why. No link. I don't have any problem with the way my parents disciplined me - I'd get more upset when they shouted at me anyway - but obviously some parents do take it too far and do hit their children too hard, or over stupid things. I think Dannichu put it well:

It's far, far too grey an area to say "you can hit your kid this hard this number of times with this object when s/he does something this bad", and it's much better to just make it so people aren't allowed to do it at all.

 

[Butterfree]

As a matter of psychological fact, punishment is significantly less effective than positive reinforcement. That alone should make people hesitate to use punishment for discipline.

But mostly, I think spanking children just hugely misses the point. For one thing, it's a violent role model: children who observe respected adults committing acts of violence are likely to also show aggressive behavior. For another, as with punishment in general, it does not even attempt to teach the child why what they did was wrong: it just tells them, "Getting caught doing this is bad." It makes the child think of the parent as an antagonist and tells them they should sneak around to avoid being caught, but not that the behavior is morally wrong.

If I have children and they do something wrong, I will tell them why it's wrong and point out why they wouldn't want the same thing done to them to make them understand the rule and want to follow it. Rules should never be arbitrary, and the child should not be made to think they are.

 

[surskitty]

If I have children and they do something wrong, I will tell them why it's wrong and point out why they wouldn't want the same thing done to them to make them understand the rule and want to follow it.

What do you propose doing if a two-year-old or so tries to run out into the street?

 

[Butterfree]

Fetch them back and tell them it's dangerous because they could get hit by a car? Sure, a two-year-old probably won't understand it very well, but it's not as if the two-year-old is going to be running around without adult supervision anyway, and with time they will come to fully understand it.

In any case I really don't see how that's relevant to the argument unless you honestly think spanking a two-year-old who runs into the street is a better solution. Heck, in that case spanking is flat-out evil; in what possible world is it justifiable to punish people for unknowingly endangering themselves?

 

[surskitty]

Spanking, no, not really. But I don't think swatting at someone in similar circumstances is terrible because there're ages where the kid's not going to be any good at listening to logic and I'd think getting them to associate discomfort with things that can get the kid badly injured is better than a lot of other things.

 

[J.T.]

From what I've seen with my two younger brothers, a simple, firm "no" work most of the time. They may not understand the words, but they sure as hell understand the tone.

 

[President Michael Wilson]

I like how evenly this falls on gender lines.


Anyway, yes spanking. At younger ages it is about the only thing they will understand, as long as it's made clear what they're being punished for.

 

[Tarvos]

Spanking, no, not really. But I don't think swatting at someone in similar circumstances is terrible because there're ages where the kid's not going to be any good at listening to logic and I'd think getting them to associate discomfort with things that can get the kid badly injured is better than a lot of other things.

this. using logic doesn't work on a toddler. when they're older you can use logic on them and instill them to use logic but as a toddler just laying down rules tends to work more effectively.

 

[Psyburn]

Sometimes kids really need it. I've had younger cousins so bad that they would actually throw glasses around as a form of entertainment, thinking any object can and should be thrown.

But really, it depends on the severity of what they do. I remember drawing on walls, I just got scolded. My sister yelled at our grandma (she was 4) and got a beating. I was playing with a bat in the house, broke a wall, got a beating. I trip over and break something, they check my head, tell I need to be careful, and replace w/e is broken.

Still, i've become a complete wuss considering how strict they are about school. Hell I got grounded for a D in international fucking cuisine....in the 12th grade....when the only class I needed was Eng 12. Hell I was passing all of my other classes (that I did not require) and they didn't notice. And after my idiot sister got straight F's in college, failure in one class is not an option at this point. Im literally stressing out right because they are insane when it comes to school. But no I dont get beatings for stuff at this age. :P

 

[Peter Shadeslayer]

When a child is spanked too much, it becomes pointless to them. They begin to take it unemotionally. Spanking should be used as a punishment only when necessary. When VERY necessary.

 

[Dewgong]

well yeah, i mean if it happens everyday for no reason it kind of takes away from the point of spanking.

 

[FluffyGryphon]

I was smacked around. I consider it a good punishment compared to the lackluster parenting of modern days. Considering the steady decline in social stability, I attribute it to the new-age "Let the schools do most of the discipline and I'll just ask my children to be nice. I'm a good parent." parenting attitude.

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

My parents never hit me and I'm an alright guy I guess so I'll say it depends on whether the parents have any control over the child or if the child respects their parents.
But there are lots of bad parents who have to resort to violence (not a tap, I mean a whip-around with a belt and such) because they are bad parents ):

 

[Momoharu]

Personally, I think spanking is an acceptable form of child raising, as long as it's not extreme. It really depends on the situation, I think.

If my kid draws on the wall, scolding.

If my kid cuts his sister with a knife ( I actually did that once as a kid), smack him. Not hard enough that he'll get bruised for life or bleed, just hard enough to know that that is unacceptable, and doing it leads to punishment. That's what my parents did, and I never cut my sister with a knife again.

I believe that, after spanking the child, you should clearly explain why they got spanked, and tell them not do do it again, because they'll know what happens now.

 

[Skylands]

Spanking should be a personal preference. If you don't have a problem with it, try it in the proper environment. If you are against it, don't do it. It is as simple as that. Children can grow up just fine with or without spanking.

 

[Princess Darknight II]

I have a slight personal issue with this. Not from myself, but from my mother. When she was younger, she was a perfectionist student with no real support. When she did wrong, though, she would get beaten with all sorts of strange things. She told me that she was once hit with a Vans shoe. Because of this, she doesn't dare lay a finger on me.

That said, I think that spanking is a personal preference. As long as it doesn't get out of control (like say, spanking with a shoe), you can't really force them not to. My personal belief is that talking it out and more tangible consequences (grounding, cut off from privilages) works better in the long-run then spanking. However, if the child is about do something extremely stupid or dangerous like put a fork into a socket or something, I'd smack them on the bottom. Physical pain stops humans in the short-term, but doesn't do anything for the long-run. So afterwords I'd tell them how dangerous it is and why they shouldn't do it.

But spanking furiously over bad grades? That seems more like rage being channeled into an 'acceptable' form and I don't agree on that at all.

 

[Dewgong]

i would be scared if anybody but a fork into a socket
i don't think i'd be touching them at all of they did that

oh, and about the grades... i have friends... and it's like, they could get A, A, A, A, A, B, and get grounded/spanked. no reason for that.

 

[Princess Darknight II]

Well, to be fair, you're supposed to do it right before they actually do it. If they already put the fork into the socket, then you wouldn't see me touching them either. Or even being in the same room.

Oh really? That seems really extreme to me but I've seen worse. I once saw a kid so afraid of getting a B that he tampered with his grades. A B, in a report card full of As.

I shudder to think why he was so terrified.

 

[Scyther]

I got--and get spanked a lot.

The thing is... I think it could be OK, I man, on principle, if you actually respect your parents. But if you're like me, and you do what your parents say just because you fear them... Well, there's something wrong.

One of my earliest experience I remember in school is crying because I got a bad grade, in I don't know, 1st grade? Which happened again...

...and again. Which makes me, in others eyes a wimp.

I used to be able to manipulate my dad into not spanking me, but more recently, when I have the attitude 'I'm older and you wouldn't do that' he says, "my father spanked me until I was 16, and now I'll do the same to you.

And it's not like I have a definitive sense of right and wrong. They find it OK to make me sit in the trunk of the car when they run out of space.

Hurumph. I just ranted, didn't I?

 

[Aisling]

Someone in this thread has said at least once what I think about this, but I think I'll say it anyway for the record.

My own dad is a bit like that, Scyther. He'd make his parents so angry that they'd throw good dishes at him, and he also underwent the "traditional" whipping with daddy's belt while you're bent over his knee and everything.
While he's never thrown anything at me, when I was smaller he did throw me onto the couch. It didn't hurt, but it was scary as hell. There was also another time he was so enraged he grabbed me by the hair and screamed in my face. If I ever asked him why he hit me instead of just tell me I was doing wrong, he'd tell me that his parents were worse and that he was being merciful.
I don't remember what I did to get thrown into the couch, but I remember getting my hair yanked was for saying "good riddance" when he threatened to leave because our cats smelled or something like that. I said this because he was being pretty damn scary then and all I could think of was the other times he'd been scary and the times he'd hit me. I didn't want the scary dad that hit me, I wanted the funny dad who could take a joke, have fun and make yummy chocolate gravy for breakfast. It was like he was two different people entirely, and if I didn't have the nice dad I would be willing to go without either to avoid the scary dad.

Parents definitely shouldn't use their own upbringing to justify what they do to you. That sort of thing starts a chain of unwarranted taking-out-anger-on that only stops when someone down the line realizes it isn't right. That's what my grandpa has always told me when I would talk to him about this, and I think it's true. His dad wasn't a #1 Dad or anything either, but he realized when he was raising my mom that he shouldn't hurt her that way. And I can't remember a time I was scared of my mom, but I always want to listen to her. My mom and her parents were good parents, but my dad never figured any of that out before the damage was done.
I think that discipline is situational. A good talking to is better for the long term, and sometimes when the situation is dangerous and can get worse very fast, some kind of physical action needs to be taken. That sort of thing gets processed a little faster, and in this case physical discipline is justified. Just make sure that the kid understands why you did what you did, and why what he was doing was dangerous and wrong.
I think you need to retain a consistent image in your child's eyes, as well. You don't need to be scary about discipline, especially if you're otherwise a pretty nice person. Scaring the hell out of your kid when you get angry at them, and then being nice and huggy the next minute, will inevitably confuse them and create unneeded tension further down the road.

As for the kids that "just need a spanking", I find it hard to believe that it isn't just the result of improper discipline, rather than it just being in their nature like people imply. Maybe they get it too much and they're rebelling, or maybe they don't get enough discipline at all and they think that what they're doing is okay, or maybe they just don't respect their parents/authority in general for some reason or another. I could see something like half-hearted attempts at discipline where the parent is obviously unsure of themselves and totally lacking confidence causing that sort of attitude. Do it right from the get-go and kids won't end up like this, where getting the crap beaten out of them is the only thing that can get through to them.

And on a final note, I'm in that boat of pussies that cries over a lot more than they should. I really don't know if I'm just pointing fingers, but I think that crying as my habitual, kneejerk reaction could've been caused by crying in pain as often as at least once every couple of days. I think it happened so often it just became an impulsive, almost unconscious reaction to anything more than just a bit upsetting.
Or, maybe I'm just an overemotional person like that. I'm not entirely sure but I think it could be attributed to either. I figure kids who are more empathetic would probably respond better to positive reinforcement and non-physical discipline than others, and frightening parents and painful punishments would be emotionally scarring to them, whether it's affective for them or not.

I've never been a parent, of course, but based on how I feel about my own parents and how they feel about their parents... those are my conclusions.