Cats (2019) Mafia

[rari_teh]

’tis only about 12 hours until EoD and the mafia is leading the discussion like a ringmaster leads a circus pony tbh

yeah, the presence (or lack thereof) of people is lowkey stressing me out
what am i missing :(

i am fairly sure that we have a pretty similar PoE, so i’m probably missing whatever you are missing as well tbh
though they only need one townvote on who they want to eliminate amidst the seemingly unavoidable pre-EoD confusion, so maybe they’re going quiet to wait for a more solid response from our fishing bros tbh

 

[Trebek]

’tis only about 12 hours until EoD and the mafia is leading the discussion like a ringmaster leads a circus pony tbh

yeah, the presence (or lack thereof) of people is lowkey stressing me out
what am i missing :(

i am fairly sure that we have a pretty similar PoE, so i’m probably missing whatever you are missing as well tbh
though they only need one townvote on who they want to eliminate amidst the seemingly unavoidable pre-EoD confusion, so maybe they’re going quiet to wait for a more solid response from our fishing bros tbh

this is part of what’s stressing me out about my PoE :( i’m fairly convinced by vm’s documentation of his codeclaim to tofu, and i really want blu to be town, but if that happens then PoE leads me to believing in dark fishing bro’s, which also doesn’t seem right

 

[rari_teh]

i’m fairly convinced by vm’s documentation of his codeclaim to tofu

he didn’t, and can’t, prove his answer to the first question tbh
he might as well have claimed bodyguard to her

 

[Trebek]

i’m fairly convinced by vm’s documentation of his codeclaim to tofu

he didn’t, and can’t, prove his answer to the first question tbh
he might as well have claimed bodyguard to her

yeah, it could very well have been a BG or GA claim, but it’s got me thinking just enough to be paranoid about my PoE :/

 

[rari_teh]

my PoE right now is qva > keldeo > mist > koko > vm tbh
like, vm is def the least likely to be lying, but if he’s telling the truth then blu is mafia, and if blu is mafia then he deserves the win for perfectly acting like the purest of townies since D1 tbh

 

[Trebek]

my PoE right now is qva > keldeo > mist > koko > vm tbh
like, vm is def the least likely to be lying, but if he’s telling the truth then blu is mafia, and if blu is mafia then he deserves the win for perfectly acting like the purest of townies since D1 tbh

i agree with this, my only paranoia caveat is that if vig kills keep happening and vm gets confirm town, idk wether i am more likely to believe blu is mafia or bfree/m+7 are mafia and one of mist/koko is town

 

[rari_teh]

idk wether i am more likely to believe blu is mafia or bfree/m+7 are mafia and one of mist/koko is town

tbqh i’m only sure that bfree/mp7 are town because everytime someone said “what if” everybody said that mafia fishing bros don’t exist, but if i discarded that i’d def be more inclined to believe that bfree/mp7 are mafia rather than blu tbh
not for anything damning that they did, but because it’d take the best of hollywood to put up the act that blu would have been putting tbh

 

[Trebek]

idk wether i am more likely to believe blu is mafia or bfree/m+7 are mafia and one of mist/koko is town

tbqh i’m only sure that bfree/mp7 are town because everytime someone said “what if” everybody said that mafia fishing bros don’t exist, but if i discarded that i’d def be more inclined to believe that bfree/mp7 are mafia rather than blu tbh
not for anything damning that they did, but because it’d take the best of hollywood to put up the act that blu would have been putting tbh

yeah, we’re basically mindmelding rn


it’s just frustrating bc i know most people are having a much easier time with their PoE by chucking me in there

 

[Keldeo]

I'm personally in knee deep in dark fishing brothers tinfoil rn for what that's worth to you. :V

if blu’s wolf, why was he the first person to post an actually game-relevant post D1?

Do you actually think this makes him town... It is also, to your other points, really not that hard for mafia to go "haha I'm just a townie."

I am slowly casing him / town casing myself, will post at some point before sleep tonight.

 

[Keldeo]

Like Butterfree's turn on me here is pretty opportunistic and ignores the larger context around my claiming my soft. I can't help but think that she's been keeping me at null because "zomg he's a good wolf" in order to keep that option open.

Vibes in a similar direction on koko. Man.

 

[Keldeo]

Actually think possibly Butterfree (and by extension MP7) and definitely VM are both spewed town from Blu's posting - specifically Blu shifting blame/reasoning onto Butterfree's Herbe vote, and Blu basically rolefishing VM after his Jennyanydots claim.

 

[Keldeo]

I 100% think VM should holster tonight if there is a tonight, btw, not worth losing the game on a wrong shot.

 

[Novae]

I don't get why people are actually considering VM as scum role-wise

I don't think a mafia vig makes any sense in 10v4

 

[Butterfree]

Like Butterfree's turn on me here is pretty opportunistic and ignores the larger context around my claiming my soft. I can't help but think that she's been keeping me at null because "zomg he's a good wolf" in order to keep that option open.

Vibes in a similar direction on koko. Man.

What larger context around the softclaim am I missing exactly? Because you literally just cited the fact you once called it "seer cover", a common term for the thing.

 

[Keldeo]

Bluwiikoon is mafia.

In short, Blu has not placed a vote or made a read this game where I'm convinced he actually believes the person he's talking about is mafia. He's placed votes and stated suspicions, sure, but crucially none of them are strong and founded in his own belief.

The town are trying to find mafia! The town develop beliefs that people are mafia, strong beliefs that sometimes are wrong. The mafia aren't trying to find mafia, because they already know who they are. The mafia know that if they don't actually call townies mafia, they won't be visibly wrong. They are protected by their TMI.

Scroll through his ISO and find me somewhere he actually suspects someone. Here are some posts where he expresses suspicion on people, which is usually immediately followed by a hedge:

Spoiler

-I have some suspicions about Seshas for some reason Could just be unfounded based on my earlier WIFOM tinhatting however! As far as I can recall, they didn't actually respond to my tinhatting (not that WMG deserves much of a response)

I guess someone inactive, or someone I have feelings about. So far those people would be Seshas (because of me tunnelling/tinhatting too hard after Jokes) or rari_teh (due to reasons Trebek mentioned in #715, and the big increase of their posting activity right as Trebek was getting pushed)

The Great Trebek Push made me about rari, purely based on the fact that I hadn't noticed much activity from them and then the Push resulted in a lot of activity from them in a short space of time. Other than that, not sure to make of RNP and Stryke :-( RNP is allegedly Always Like That, but it seems like they're a bit unhappy about any kind of voting on D1, particularly against Stryke. Meanwhile, Stryke's reaction to their wagon is equivalent to a (shrug)

IndigoEmmy still feels a bit different to me, but she still does the same thing of following along with everyone else's wagons and not inputting too much else otherwise, which is similar to her in tvt (where she was town).

VM comes out of the kyeugh speculation looking a bit worse if we all accept kyeugh as town, since it could all be a push to discredit someone we perceive as town over uhhh current lynch targets. But, trying to use mech stuff as speculation could also be a very towny move? It just all, hmm, feels very aggressive. ILS also continues to feel to me, for posting sparsely yet feeling inclined to comment on the rari shade and kyeugh shade. I also don't think ILS's flavor spec could necessarily be ultra towny if there's no Strange Circumstances to hide

Keldeo - Sorry to suspect you bro but I'd probably mark you as red
kokorico - Idk sorry
Trebek - We had some good feelings about them during the Trebekkening! Which, of course, was spearheaded by Keldeo...
M Plus 7 - Idk tbh
Tofu - VM was like at her role, and yet didn't move to lynch her. I'd assume 3p unless they're in it together
Bluwiikoon - I'm town, of course.
Vipera Magnifica - Just vibes tbh, and if we accept kyeugh as innocent then the statistics REALLY looks bad
Mist1422 - Idk

He's . He says people "look a bit worse". He marks people as red. He justifies (or avoids) suspicion based on other people's reads. Are you convinced at all that he himself thinks these people are mafia?

And some super non-specific shade casting posts:

Spoiler

So, would toDay's agenda be analysing people who were reluctant to vote Ultracool throughout the thread? :o

Is it worth wagoning for inactive folks today, and/or trying to draw some of the more lurky/inactive folks out of the woodwork? I'm also interested if anybody has more hypocop flips ^^

The reason I mention inactives is that it feels like we're at a little bit of a standstill at the moment without more discussion and input from lots of different people. Being lurky has proven to be an effective strategy for scum in the past

As a result, he's been able to avoid accountability this entire game - for both his lack of suspicions and for the votes, on town, that he has placed.

I think after reading everyone's points I have stronger feelings about lynching myuma than Stryke, so I'll just park a vote there for now unless anything else comes to light. Sorry myuma, it's gotta be someone ;o;

His vote on town myuma just because he prefers them to town Stryke, based on other people's points.

If it helps, my vote on Tofu yesterDay was to add pressure because we were trying to see how they'd react to a bit of pushing

His vote on Tofu justified in hindsight as pressure. Note that he never made a read on this reaction.

I think Herbe for now. In day one they kept mentioning how towny they are and uhhhh honestly? I feel like a rolecop is kind of a huge risk for any town power roles, especially considering y'all are saying rolecop is usually a mafia role >:o Unless we get a specific cat claim from Herbe that people knowledgeable in The Lore can explain as being rolecop AND town, I'm ok putting my vote there. Sorry tangy bro ;o;

His vote on Herbe (over Mr. Ultracool, despite saying he was fine with the Ultracool train earlier.) Note how he defers blame to Butterfree, and how he never actually expresses that he thinks Herbe is mafia. Rolecop is a risk. Other people are saying it's usually mafia.

And if I revisit my Spicy Roster List, marking RNP as red allows someone else whom is Unconfirmed to be green (like a greenlist of Me, VM and Tofu, and possibly Trebek or koko). I think I like that a bit more, especially since either VM or Tofu are confirmed vig now? It also doesn't do us any favours for the cop to get roleblocked out of some weird memey grudge.

His vote on RNP. Again, this is so position-y. Marking RNP as mafia allows someone else in the POE to be town: of course. Does he actually believe RNP is mafia and roleblocking the cop out of agenda, or does RNP have a weird memey grudge?

I townread him for tone too, early. I fell into that trap. Him reminding people to stay hydrated and posting cute pictures is so awesome, and I really truly wish there were more people like him who played mafia.

But here, he just isn't motivated to solve the game. He is putting on the act of being a clueless townie, and using people townreading him for that act in order to coast on his lack of actual material stances, and his lack of any action that has led to a mafia death.

--

I am town.

If you're town and voting me right now, it's going to lose the game. I don't blame you - I've played pretty poorly, I've wagoned townies and badly setup speculated and been less than engaged this crucial phase.

But ask anyone who's towned against me to describe me as the mafia alignment, and you might get under-the-radar, or reasonable. The wolf in your town core, the one whose backstab you don't see coming.

This game I've been flashy, bold, noticeable. I've taken stances. I've posted my thoughts transparently. Visibly reaction testing Trebek and trying to get wagons formed on day 1, visibly starting the Herbe wagon on day 2, visibly counterclaiming Blu today - all things I didn't need to do as mafia, where my priority is to stay under the radar and survive. All things that I did here, as town, to create a cohesive, solving town environment.

I seriously need to sleep so I'm not going to self-ISO because I've posted like 300 times, which should probably be a towntell in itself, but

Maybe that means that I should vote Mr. Ultracool so that the wagons can be him and someone else?!

This is a post I made day 1 that I straight-up did not need to make about Mr. Ultracool if I was his partner.

And like, I said that I had a flavor soft the moment that I counterclaimed. I don't understand at all Butterfree / mewtini / kokorico's argument that I made it up somehow.

--

Mechanically the votes should be between me and the person who is confirmed mafia to me but I guess that isn't happening.

I don't have a team or unified theory of everything, sorry. I think VM and mewtini are town, and Butterfree and MP might be town but I'm smitten with the dark fishing bros theory. I'm currently at yeet Blu figure the rest out tomorrow tbh.

And like I said... I really don't fault you if you vote me out here, but I also really don't want this game to end this way. Please read what I've written and not continue to tunnel me?

Thanks for bearing with me. I'll try to be back before the deadline.

 

[Keldeo]

Like Butterfree's turn on me here is pretty opportunistic and ignores the larger context around my claiming my soft. I can't help but think that she's been keeping me at null because "zomg he's a good wolf" in order to keep that option open.

Vibes in a similar direction on koko. Man.

What larger context around the softclaim am I missing exactly? Because you literally just cited the fact you once called it "seer cover", a common term for the thing.

The context that I said that I softed the moment I claimed. If I were not Cassandra, how would I have known that I had even posted a soft? I never ever call it seer cover, seer isn't a known or used term here.

 

[Keldeo]

I don't get why people are actually considering VM as scum role-wise

I don't think a mafia vig makes any sense in 10v4

I don't think anyone's arguing that he's a mafia vig. aiui the argument that he's mafia stems from the idea that Tofu was the real town vig and VM is just claiming her role since he's the only one who knew it.

I think Blu role fishing him pretty much makes him town, though.

 

[Keldeo]

Compare Blu's questions about the jailer re: RNP to Blu's question about what Jennyanydots does re: VM.

 

[Keldeo]

Blu is a hard type of mafia to catch because he has great tone, which naturally serves to dispel smaller suspicions, and he hasn't done anything overtly scummy (besides have a poor voting record, but so do many town, here.)

But that latter part is the key. He's not done anything overtly scummy that you can point to, he has no awful-looking extreme push on a town like I do, because he hasn't made any pushes of his own. It's a "negative space" read.

 

[Keldeo]

Wooo I'm on a roll.

These are his posts referring to the him/me situation today:

-If I'm wolf, why would one of my first actions toDay be to vote Keldeo instead of someone actually town?
-If I'm wolf, why has no-one ever defended me from peoples' suspicions ☹
-If I'm wolf why do I make such dumb posts and dumb plays LOL. Wolfchat would never allow my stupidity to reign free

Unless mafia have a secret rolecop I'm not sure how or why Keldeo would know I'm Cassandra and plan that far in advance ?__?

Like, I just counterclaimed him. If he's town, my claim is impossible, he should know I'm mafia. If he's town, he now has a suspect where he doesn't need to have any concerns or interpretations to waffle about, finally! Why is that not showing in his posts?