Cats (2019) Mafia

[Tofu]

Sorry I meant to quote this under my bit about Skylar above (mostly so I can find it later without swimming in ISO)

i don’t hate a vm lynch i guess, but lowkey pretty sure he wasn’t lying about being vig. i think the test doesn’t make any sense unless he was going to be okay with an “idk” answer or has somehow been trying to get people to read him as vig for the whole game fsr

 

[Butterfree]

(I am working on catching up intermittently, bear with me)

I did find it a little odd how Blu parked on Herbe even though he was suspecting Emmy of being an alien... but their excuse of protecting the cop kinda makes sense?

For what it’s worth, hoping to dissuade the mafia from targeting Emmy is exactly what I assumed Bluwiikoon was doing there. There was some particular post that especially glaringly hinted this to me, but I can’t be assed to find it right now. Even if Bluwiikoon is mafia, I don’t think there’s any way this is a walkback; it’d have been planned as an effort to appear to be trying to help town.

 

[Butterfree]

that's probably NAI isn't it? w!herbe would know that emmy would come back with something making it clear she got [mafia] roleblocked (unless you're saying he just blames it on a hypothetical town roleblocker or something like that)

aw heck, you’re probably right, but part of me still wants to believe w!herbe would still have an easier time justifying 2 roleblockers than coming up with a fake role for a dead person

basically i’m TRing herbe for more reasons than just [redacted]

He didn’t actually come up with a fake role for a dead person, though? He went “oh I totally inspected ILS but I’m not going to tell you what his role was because it’d help the mafia”? Did I miss something?

 

[Bluwiikoon]

I don't like posting unless I have a legit observation to post but I just felt the need to say that, based on the new discussions since I was here earlier today, it's just... Very likely there are multiple scum in people's cleared lists. The numbers don't add up based on what I know.

VM and tofu COULD both be wolves actually, since Tofu was given VM's role in code and didn't try to lynch him either. Or they're both green and Trebek played us all

(what did Trebek do re vm/my roles? I missed something?)

Trebek is unrelated to you guys; I basically posted a list of who I'd suspect of being red/green and I gave Trebek a green. Since I'm also green, that would mean only one of you/VM would be green if we accept there's five mafia left. However, after that I then realised that you two would have to be the same alignment (or one of you lied to the other).

As for the me/vm thing with one of us being mafia, just... lol. I understand questioning of our roles based on the fact that there must be something off in some of the lists, but it's pointing in the wrong direction.

Blu, why in the heck would either of us give each other our (correct) roles if one of us were mafia? We would already know each other were mafia if we were both in-group (barring a third party role). I know I can't really prove this but it'd be extremely difficult for one of the two of us to lie about being town to the other (and, seriously, well played if this is the case, but there is Evidence I don't want to reveal because I don't want anyone to know either of our roles.).

Idk I'm not very smart :( I'm sowwy

Also, @Bluwiikoon , I'd like to know why you wanted the mafia to think emmy was an alien to cover up the cop role, only to reveal it the next day, when the mafia would see that and surely be trying to kill her next chance they get? And would likely keep trying? I find this solution short-sighted and wonder what you thought would happen next/long-term with this.

I mean, everyone kept discussing matters as if Emmy was definitely cop, so I don't think anyone bought my alienposting. I didn't know we had multiple protective roles too, so hopefully Emmy is reasonably safe for now? I just felt that if I kept alienposting it would be more detrimental to town. Again, nobody seemed to buy it anyway so it probably didn't even protect Emmy.

Again, I'm not very smart!

 

[Butterfree]

if no maf kill occurred n1 i'd be like, ok maybe herbe is just a wolf, but seshas still feels like a nearly random kill

by which i mean: if i got healed or something and mafia targeted me

It bothers me that nobody’s considering the possibility of a) some form of redirection, b) mafia not thinking mewtini’s role is so important it should be the immediate nightkill, c) mafia assuming mewtini might get healed, etc.

 

[Vipera Magnifica]

i kinda think that if herbe is indeed town (to be clear, i'm still townleaning him) then mafia probably has a rolecop to balance it out? is that a fair assumption ...

yeah im inclined to townlean herbe still (unless im only thinking of n levels of wifom and hes at n+1 lmao), and i would be willing to bet that if one rolecop exists, then one also exists on the other side (if that is the case, thats even more reason to TR herbe since the other one hasnt claimed if they exist)

I have never once seen a game where both town and mafia had a rolecop and I heavily doubt Jack would do this

 

[Tofu]

Moved off of ultracool at the 8v2, voted herbe at EoD: {VM, Keldeo, kyuegh}
Stayed on ultracool between 8v2 and EoD: {tofu, trebek, rari, Herbe, mewtini}
Moved onto the ultracool wagon between 8v2 and EoD: {Mist, MP7, koko}
off-wagon through EoD: {RNP, Emmy}
Weren't voting Ultracool at any point, ended on herbe: {ILS, Butterfree, Ultra, Blu}

cutting out the clears we end up with:
{VM, Keldeo, kyuegh}
{tofu, trebek, rari}
{MP7, koko}
{RNP}
{Blu}
in order

Probably 2-3 scum in the first one, one in the second, none in the third, and one in {RNP/Blu}

So if I had to give a solve it'd be VM/Keldeo/kyuegh/Blu/tofu, with tofu swappable with trebek/rari

My list is kind of like

Scum somewhere between kyeugh, mist, maybe rari?
I dunno about mp7, blu, koko, keldeo, trebek yet (have to go read and I will try I promise) but statistically should have a few scum in there
rnp is just, chaotic neutral/what

I'm also not wholly convinced of a few of the people who have been omitted from this list, but I know you based it on the UC votes. Still, I'm placing you in my suspicious list now purely because of your version of the list. Honestly, if I were forced to rank everyone, mine would nearly be opposite of yours, or at least a few notable swaps from top/bottom/top/bottom. I know you tried to base it on voting but you aren't taking into account other actions of the individuals/other conversations/whatever, and those are important along with the voting record.

My problem with these lists in general are that other people's clears are not my clears and shouldn't be everyone else's. I view Mewtini as town right now but I don't necessarily trust her reads on people because she hasn't given reasons (and I fully understand not wanting to do that! But based on the fact that I don't have all of the information she has, I don't feel okay about drawing the SAME conclusion about everyone she has cleared, just based on the fact that I town read her). Same goes for anyone else clearing other people really, because, even if I trust my judgement that they are town, I'm not sure I can trust their judgement of others. Like for example my only cleared list are myself and vm, but that info alone tips me off to the fact that many of these lists are flawed.

 

[Vipera Magnifica]

Butterfree is 99.7% town for me because the only situation in which she could be mafia is if she was pulling the long con when bussing w!herbe, and that would be an extremely risky play for her considering herbe is the only one mechanically clearing her right now (unless the other fishing brother comes forward)

actually would it be a bad idea for butterfree to say who the other fishing bro is right now? it's not exactly a super powerful role and it would give us another cleared townie (and would make her even townier because if she was mafia she'd have to give up the name of another mafia to corroborate her claim). I understand if she thinks it would be a bad idea to claim.

I'm liking Butterfree's analysis in this game a lot so I'd like to know... @Butterfree where do your suspicions currently lie?

 

[Vipera Magnifica]

Butterfree is 99.7% town for me because the only situation in which she could be mafia is if she was pulling the long con when bussing w!herbe, and that would be an extremely risky play for her considering herbe is the only one mechanically clearing her right now (unless the other fishing brother comes forward)

I guess it's not the only situation in which she could be mafia

Maybe Dark Fishing Brothers are real... I want to believe...

 

[Novae]

I know you tried to base it on voting but you aren't taking into account other actions of the individuals/other conversations/whatever, and those are important along with the voting record

pfft bold of you to assume I’ve read anything else

 

[RNP]

emmy

i'm not smart and emmy's been quiet so i'm just sticking to the one hunch i have

 

[kyeugh]

I had initially been kind of clear on Skylar but now I'm wondering why again she's pushing for people to read vm as the vig. Why would town want to expose the vig role? I feel like we already have enough of an obligation now that our (theoretical) cop has been outed and feel like we need to protect emmy. So... Why would we want mafia to know about two more "important" roles? I don't like.

two more? also i don’t really feel i’ve “exposed” anything that wasn’t already exposed. if vm is vig and really didn’t want to be read that way, i doubt he’d put me in a situation where odds were pretty good i was going to lay a case for why i thought he was the vig. to me it’s more valuable to discuss that information openly to explain my reasoning for a townread than it is to stay hush hush about a hunch i’ve already explained based on information the mafia definitely already observed and have their own ideas about.

emmy

i'm not smart and emmy's been quiet so i'm just sticking to the one hunch i have

this is starting to bug me tbh

 

[kyeugh]

can someone explain to me why we’re townreading rnp? roleblocker is a pretty much a scum role afaik. it seems weird to me that the idea that role might be scum aligned is just like, a possibility people are lightly entertaining

 

[kyeugh]

well, to be clear i don’t think it’s impossible it’s a town role, i know it can be and i’ve seen it that way before… but i feel like it’s pretty commonly scum, too, and i feel like we’re kind of letting him off the hook because he’s giving information and we’re kinda going “ah classic” even though there’s not necessarily a reason it would be towny

 

[Novae]

roleblocker is usually like 50/50

did rnp claim his action last night

 

[kyeugh]

roleblocker is usually like 50/50

did rnp claim his action last night

he blocked emmy (who claimed cop), which tracks because she said she couldn't get a result for her target (me) last night

 

[Tofu]

I had initially been kind of clear on Skylar but now I'm wondering why again she's pushing for people to read vm as the vig. Why would town want to expose the vig role? I feel like we already have enough of an obligation now that our (theoretical) cop has been outed and feel like we need to protect emmy. So... Why would we want mafia to know about two more "important" roles? I don't like.

two more? also i don’t really feel i’ve “exposed” anything that wasn’t already exposed. if vm is vig and really didn’t want to be read that way, i doubt he’d put me in a situation where odds were pretty good i was going to lay a case for why i thought he was the vig. to me it’s more valuable to discuss that information openly to explain my reasoning for a townread than it is to stay hush hush about a hunch i’ve already explained based on information the mafia definitely already observed and have their own ideas about.

emmy

i'm not smart and emmy's been quiet so i'm just sticking to the one hunch i have

this is starting to bug me tbh

Oh shoot, wrong emphasis. I should have read more like, two "more important" as in, two roles that will appear more valuable than other roles. Not "two more" important. So, knowing both the vig and cop would spread our protection resources thinner (and we don't even know what those are yet).

On rnp's post... Yeah I dunno. Emmy isn't particularly consistently active, so I don't think that's a great reason to vote for her. (unless this is "for science" to get her to talk but I think we already know all we need to know about her role)

 

[Vipera Magnifica]

can someone explain to me why we’re townreading rnp? roleblocker is a pretty much a scum role afaik. it seems weird to me that the idea that role might be scum aligned is just like, a possibility people are lightly entertaining

he said he was the jailer

 

[kyeugh]

can someone explain to me why we’re townreading rnp? roleblocker is a pretty much a scum role afaik. it seems weird to me that the idea that role might be scum aligned is just like, a possibility people are lightly entertaining

he said he was the jailer

did he? he said he jailed emmy, but he never said he was a jailer as far as i can tell, and he described his power as roleblocking and didn't specify anything else.

 

[kyeugh]

blocks and protects

oh!