Death Penalty

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

I'm opposed to it. If there really is someone dangerous enough that they need to be removed from society, then just keep them in an isolated part of the prison with minimal external contact. It's not that hard and costs a lot less.

condition is "in an ideal world".

Surely an ideal world wouldn't have crimes worthy of the death penalty?

 

[Phantom]

I guess I am yes, under certain conditions. There are some people who can't be changed, some people who just can't fit in with the rest of society, but locking them up for life is expensive, though killing them is too, it's a lose lose situation. I think extreme cases, say Timothy McVeigh.


I am really actually torn on this subject, I know that two wrongs don't make a right, yet some part of me says that some people deserve it... I'm not sure what that part is, or what is inspiring it, but I feel it, hard to explain and I am sorry for that.

 

[Aisling]

I would suppose it's the "human nature" part of you that says, "he deserved it!" That hypocritical sort of wish fulfillment is part of why I'm against it in all cases. An ideal world may not be possible, but that's no reason to not try to make it better- I mean, look at everything we have now!- and I think abandoning that gut instinct to give somebody what's coming to him and take something more useful from the situation instead would be the next step forward. If there's nothing particularly insightful to be learned from the mind of a would-be death row prisoner, at least save the government a little money and not spend a fortune exterminating them.

 

[Pwnemon]

Okay, I know Vixie's announcement was directed at me.

I support the death penalty not as a punishment, but as a protection. Some blights on society are just too threatening to be removed. Now I'm not gonna be like Hammurabi and endorse it for simple things such as petty theft. But if you've committed a high crime and then got out of prison and committed another high crime, or if you've murdered multiple people or something like that then there's probably no real way you could go into society as an upstanding person and it would be pointless to keep you in prison until you die of natural causes. Plus that sort of person could be a threat to prisoners who are just in for a couple weeks or something, so I say they should get the death penalty to protect society.

As to the people saying it's more expensive because of the appeals process, you can appeal anything. For heaven's sakes I could appeal a charge of reckless driving up to the Supreme Court if I really felt like it.

EDIT for ninja: Alruane you realize it isn't cheap to give a guy 60+ years of food and basic ammenities (sp)

 

[Adriane]

Okay, I know Vixie's announcement was directed at me.

It was your post that spurred the announcement I will admit, and I was considering warning you. However, I decided that an announcement would be more appropriate as you're not the only one who's done it and it wouldn't be fair to single you out.

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

Okay, I know Vixie's announcement was directed at me.

I support the death penalty not as a punishment, but as a protection. Some blights on society are just too threatening to be removed. Now I'm not gonna be like Hammurabi and endorse it for simple things such as petty theft. But if you've committed a high crime and then got out of prison and committed another high crime, or if you've murdered multiple people or something like that then there's probably no real way you could go into society as an upstanding person and it would be pointless to keep you in prison until you die of natural causes. Plus that sort of person could be a threat to prisoners who are just in for a couple weeks or something, so I say they should get the death penalty to protect society.

As to the people saying it's more expensive because of the appeals process, you can appeal anything. For heaven's sakes I could appeal a charge of reckless driving up to the Supreme Court if I really felt like it.

EDIT for ninja: Alruane you realize it isn't cheap to give a guy 60+ years of food and basic ammenities (sp)

The fact that you can appeal anything doesn't remove the fact that the average amount spent on giving someone a life sentence is less the average amount spent on giving them the death penalty.

And why kill them when you can just keep them away from the general prison population? For that matter, a mass murderer on death row is hardly gonna be in the same part of the prison as the drunk drivers in the first place.

 

[1. Luftballon]

Surely an ideal world wouldn't have crimes worthy of the death penalty?

so then it's safe to institute it, because it will never be invoked.

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

But in an ideal world, there wouldn't any laws, because people would do the right thing regardless.

 

[Superbird]

A friend of mine brought up that a "life sentence" is only 15 years or so.

I say they should have, like, 10 years of jail time, then the case would be reexamined. And if they fessed up to it, then there you go.

 

[1. Luftballon]

But in an ideal world, there wouldn't any laws, because people would do the right thing regardless.

there wouldn't need to be any laws, though I doubt that would stop well-intentioned people.

in any case, "ideal world" is basically an impossible condition. there are non-ideal conditions where death penalty is fully usable, although there are probably better alternatives that somebody could come up with.

 

[Dannichu]

I'm fairly sure that what constitutes a life sentence varies from country to country. In the UK, for example, I think it is, yeah, only about fifteen years (I say 'only'), but in the US they often really do mean life.

 

[Pwnemon]

Actually, pretty sure life sentence over here to around 30-40 years.

 

[Aisling]

EDIT for ninja: Alruane you realize it isn't cheap to give a guy 60+ years of food and basic amenities

This made me laugh a little because eight hours in between is hardly a ninja post- but it's been said several times in this thread already that executing someone still costs more so even if it isn't cheap to keep them in a life sentence, it's still cheaper than killing them, so... you realize it's even less cheap to kill someone off?

I mean, Teh Ebil Snorlax got to your post before I did, but since you addressed me by name... Reading everything and not just what pertains to you/agrees with you is good.

 

[Dannichu]

Plus, from what I've heard about American prisons, you guys damn well nearly cover your own costs of imprisoning people because prisoners are basically used as slaves.

Ultimate source :D

 

[Pwnemon]

This made me laugh a little because eight hours in between is hardly a ninja post- but it's been said several times in this thread already that executing someone still costs more so even if it isn't cheap to keep them in a life sentence, it's still cheaper than killing them, so... you realize it's even less cheap to kill someone off?

I mean, Teh Ebil Snorlax got to your post before I did, but since you addressed me by name... Reading everything and not just what pertains to you/agrees with you is good.

Well, I started that post in the morning and then had to go to school. So it was a ninja.

I did read everything. It would help not to bend the facts your way.

“The additional cost of confining an inmate to death row, as compared to the maximum security prisons where those sentenced to life without possibility of parole ordinarily serve their sentences, is $90,000 per year per inmate."

Per year? But how much time do you spend on death row compared to life imprisonment?

 

[Aisling]

Well, I started that post in the morning and then had to go to school. So it was a ninja.

I did read everything. It would help not to bend the facts your way.

“The additional cost of confining an inmate to death row, as compared to the maximum security prisons where those sentenced to life without possibility of parole ordinarily serve their sentences, is $90,000 per year per inmate."

Per year? But how much time do you spend on death row compared to life imprisonment?

Over ten years, in many cases. The average is roughly around 12 to 14 years, from what I'm reading, and the longest time someone had spent on death row was 24 years. For 12 years that death row inmate costs over one million dollars, using that 90k estimate of yours.

However, a prisoner with a life sentence costs about $22,000 a year, according to another website. That's $880,000 for forty years. That's almost as much as the twelve-year death row inmate.

here's some relevant links from a quick google search

 

[1. Luftballon]

(uh, slave labor is useful. uh. no, I don't really have much more to contribute.)

 

[Pwnemon]

Also, the cost is still a distraction from the point that these people are threats to society and shouldn't be allowed to live. Heck people in Alcatraz have had successful riots and killed innocent guards.

 

[Aisling]

Also, the cost is still a distraction from the point that these people are threats to society and shouldn't be allowed to live. Heck people in Alcatraz have had successful riots and killed innocent guards.

Who are you to decide who is allowed to live or not? How is the government allowed to decide that any more than murderers themselves are? It's very subjective and hypocritical. And it costs an asston of money.
says zuu: "they killed people which is unforgivable, so we should kill them"

No. Just no. "The cost is a distraction"? More like "I wish I didn't make myself look stupid about that"

 

[Pwnemon]

I'm not to decide, twelve jurors are. That's the way it's always been. We've always placed our trust in the people.

You want to take on a founding principle of our nation be my guest.