Did the Greek and Roman mythologists mean for their stories to be taken literally?

[Aura Cobalt]

Battle scene commence.

 

[Valerunner]

Some.

Very same reason we have Christians who think someone actually changed wine into water and that someone else split a sea apart. Though back in those days, it was the majority opinion since there was little science to say otherwise.

 

[Aura Cobalt]

I'm not one of you! I cast it on the colors!

Negrek gave this post a trolling infraction.

 

[Valerunner]

...what?

 

[goldenquagsire]

On a tangent: Classicists (and I know there are a few on TCOD), why is your subject considered distinct from mainstream History? I've heard arguments that because it's a holistic subject (i.e. it also involves elements of philosophy, languages and literature) it deserves a seperate discipline, but I would think that most modern historians consider these elements essential in discussions of their period of study?

 

[Phantom]

Why is this in Insanity? Anyways, they weren't mythologists when they stories first started, they were their religion.

 

[Solstice]

Some.

Very same reason we have Christians who think someone actually changed wine into water and that someone else split a sea apart. Though back in those days, it was the majority opinion since there was little science to say otherwise.

I'm sorry to say, but I find this offensive. It's hard to believe that this forum is fine with homosexuals but bashes (in my eyes) Christians such as myself.

I'm fine with there being gay people on here, but the above comment offended me, whether it was relevant or not.

Next time, take into consideration whether someone would be offended or not by this, this is the second example I've seen.

I believe some did.

 

[Harlequin]

I'm sorry to say, but I find this offensive. It's hard to believe that this forum is fine with homosexuals but bashes (in my eyes) Christians such as myself.

I'm fine with there being gay people on here, but the above comment offended me, whether it was relevant or not.

Next time, take into consideration whether someone would be offended or not by this, this is the second example I've seen.

I believe some did.

But there are Christians who believe that the stories presented in the Bible are meant to be taken literally... it's not bashing, it's a statement of fact.

 

[Adriane]

I'm sorry to say, but I find this offensive. It's hard to believe that this forum is fine with homosexuals but bashes (in my eyes) Christians such as myself.

I'm fine with there being gay people on here, but the above comment offended me, whether it was relevant or not.

Next time, take into consideration whether someone would be offended or not by this, this is the second example I've seen.

I believe some did.

Are you generalising that gay people are anti-Christian? Because I find that offensive.

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

I'm sorry to say, but I find this offensive. It's hard to believe that this forum is fine with homosexuals but bashes (in my eyes) Christians such as myself.

I'm fine with there being gay people on here, but the above comment offended me, whether it was relevant or not.

Next time, take into consideration whether someone would be offended or not by this, this is the second example I've seen.

I believe some did.

(1) Are you stating that you think Christians are more deserving of acceptance than gay people?

(2) Are you stating that there are not Christians who take the events described in the Bible literally?

(3) Are you taking offense because of the comparison between Christian and Greco-Roman mythology and, if so, why?

 

[Aura Cobalt]

Why is this in Insanity? Anyways, they weren't mythologists when they stories first started, they were their religion.

I argue that the greek/ roman mythology stories were created so that people could find their way out of their own minds when they started going insane. Like, Ariadne who left trail using a string to defeat the minotaur in the labrynth (the labyrinth being the mind). Of course some people actually believed these stories, which was bad because they obviously were not true.

But there are Christians who believe that the stories presented in the Bible are meant to be taken literally... it's not bashing, it's a statement of fact.

Christianity, on the other hand, has a much wider historical correlation, which far outlives that of greek/ roman mythology. You guys offend every single Christian that is daring enough to speak up on this forum, and I think you hardly even realize it.

Are you generalising that gay people are anti-Christian? Because I find that offensive.

I don't think he was saying that. I think he was saying that she is a Christian and many people on here are gay, and he can live with that despite her beliefs. He was trying to clear things up, not be offensive!


In the end, writing, even on online forums, is a distinct art, and art is subjective to interpretation, and when there are all these clashing worldviews, it is extremely easy to be accidentally offensive.

 

[Whirlpool]

...much wider historical correlation?

Anyway, the Greek-Roman mythology was their religion; their society was half-built around it, so I think it's safe to say that they thought they weren't just myths or stories, but real events and gods/people.

But why is this in Insanity?

 

[Pwnemon]

(1) Are you stating that you think Christians are more deserving of acceptance than gay people?

No. He specifically said that he respects gay people

(2) Are you stating that there are not Christians who take the events described in the Bible literally?

No, it's pretty clear there aren't, which is the exact thing making the statement offensive

(3) Are you taking offense because of the comparison between Christian and Greco-Roman mythology and, if so, why?

He's taking offense because to him, (and me), it sounded like Grimdour was saying that Christians were foolish and stupid for believing what they do.

 

[Adriane]

In the end, writing, even on online forums, is a distinct art, and art is subjective to interpretation, and when there are all these clashing worldviews, it is extremely easy to be accidentally offensive.

There was absolutely no reason to bring up sexuality.

 

[Aisling]

He's taking offense because to him, (and me), it sounded like Grimdour was saying that Christians were foolish and stupid for believing what they do.

Nowhere in Grimdour's post did he do anything close to imply that Christians who believed (you say "were" so we're assuming past tense here, right?) everything in the Bible literally happened were foolish and stupid. In fact he justified it a bit in stating that we simply did not have the scientific knowledge in those days that we do now.

In order to take offense to Grimdour's statement you would have to assume that the ancient Greeks and Romans who believed their mythology was literal were foolish and stupid themselves. And if you do assume that, then what reason do today's literal-believing Christians have that makes them not as stupid and foolish as you're assuming the Greeks and Romans were?

 

[ultraviolet]

okay, moved to Srs Bsns because... I don't even know why this was in Insanity in the first place. Please do try and stay on topic!

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

No. He specifically said that he respects gay people

Actually, no he didn't. He said "he doesn't mind" there being gay people on tCoD, which just means he tolerates their presence and says absolutely nothing about whether he respects gay people or not. Furthermore, his first sentence implies that he thinks Christians are more deserving of acceptance than gay people.

No, it's pretty clear there aren't, which is the exact thing making the statement offensive

Lolwut. There are thousands, if not millions, of Christians who believe the events of the Bible happened literally.

He's taking offense because to him, (and me), it sounded like Grimdour was saying that Christians were foolish and stupid for believing what they do.

Actually, the sum total of what Grimdour said (both explicit and implicit) is "Some Romans and Greeks believed the events described in their mythology happened literally, just like some Christians do today. But back in Greco-Roman times, it was a majority opinion among the people because they had less scientific knowledge than we today, where literal interpretation of Christian mythology is a minority opinion."

Please outline the offensive part of that statement.

 

[Butterfree]

I can sort of vaguely get by what line of logic you'd take offense to it, but Teh Ebil Snorlax's summary of Grimdour's post is accurate and it's a perfectly legitimate comparison (are you honestly trying to argue that Christians who believe in water being changed into wine and the splitting of the Red Sea somehow believe it for much better reasons than the ancient Greeks or Romans?). It only compares; it doesn't judge. If we had a thread about the merits of pedophilia and somebody said "Well, some people are just attracted to children, the way some people are attracted to people of their own sex," that would not be offensive towards homosexuals, either.

Anyway, most older mythologies are pretty bizarre, honestly; I hardly think all of them were not supposed to be taken literally (and what, humanity only invented actual religion in the past few thousand years?). Religions have adapted to our growing body of scientific knowledge about how the world really works and changing cultural ideas about reasonable belief, but back in the day the stuff that seems completely out there to us was just how mythology was and people didn't find it anywhere near that bizarre.

 

[Tarvos]

Furthermore I don't think there are "writers" of mythology as such - more just chroniclers who wrote down what happened. I'm not sure Roman authors wrote mythological stories intended by the author to be taken literally - instead they used elements of mythology and specific gods of the time (such as the Aeneid taking Aeneas and making him a son of Venus and Anchises) as elements in their story.

I don't think Virgil had the idea "specifically" to make people believe the story literally. It's just how the story had been told for years, he wrote it down, and used artistic licence to make it what it was. I mean, part of the Aeneid describes what happened in Troy as well and Virgil simply had read Homer. Homer's story was the accepted tale of what happened to Troy, I'm not sure what the plebs of the time believed. Some may, some may not have. Probably just like now, many common people believed it, and select other people like Plato, Socrates, Aristotle advanced popular ideas of their own that took and hold sway.

 

[Valerunner]

HoldonholdonholdonHOLD THE FUCK ON.

Since when did I say Christians are stupid? I am being realistic; there are people in this world who believe that the Bible is historical fact. Maybe not to the letter, but there are some who do believe that the human world is roughly 5000 years old, because of the lack of substantial evidence to prove otherwise. Since when did I say that Christians are all rednecks who burn gays and molest children?

I am a Roman Catholic. I may not have as much faith in God as I used to, but damn you if you think I disrespect those who do. Stating that there are people who do believe in these theories is not being offensive. Stating that these beliefs are stupid is.

Now back on topic. Greek mythology is steeped in miracles, much like modern religion. For example, the eternal story of a god impregnating a mortal, bearing a future king, hero or villain demigod. They usually have enormous strength, or performed impossible tasks. It can simply be someone with good genes and the right upbringing, with a dash of luck. Now people are gonna ask, where did this being come from? He must not be human, he did so and so! Once the person dies, their legend lives on. Cue the chinese whispers, and you have a Greek Champion.

Heracles is a wonderful example; he could have simply been an exceptionally strong, smart man who just happened to go on a rage and kill his family, and now gets "signs" from the gods (i.e. nature) to do a king's labours. Which include killing a lion and cleaning a stable. Easy. Now if the lion's torn through countless men, people may say it's unique; it has impenetrable skin. Or the stables being eternally mucky because it has horrible keepers. And since they're the King's stable keepers, no one can believe that they're horrible at their job, so they blame the stable.