Do you identify as a feminist?

[Butterfree]

As well, people are raising shit about it being derived from a Latin word meaning female, so why not raise the point the ending is masculine?

Because the Latin root of the word 'feminine' is understood by English speakers to refer to something of or relating to women, whereas the -ist ending is not understood by English speakers to be in any way tied to masculinity.

 

[Eloi]

Because the Latin root of the word 'feminine' is understood by English speakers to refer to something of or relating to women, whereas the -ist ending is not understood by English speakers to be in any way tied to masculinity.

Damn you, connotations. *sigh* You are right though.

 

[Zoltea]

What is a concrete definition?

Concrete definition in this particular discussion - in other words someone lays down 1 definition that we will all use to make our decisions.

 

[Eloi]

Concrete definition in this particular discussion - in other words someone lays down 1 definition that we will all use to make our decisions.

Noun
feminist (plural feminists)
A person who supports the equality of women with men.
A member of a feminist political movement.
One who believes in the social, political, and economical equality of the sexes.

 

[Zuu]

are we going to start the dictionary definition shit again lol?

by the way,
us i o um o i orum is os is (2M)
- is i em e es um ibus es ibus (3M/F)
us us ui um u us uum ibus us ibus (4M)

are the masculine endings i'm familiar with so i have no idea what you are even taaalking about, even though it's incredibly irrelevant.

 

[Eloi]

are we going to start the dictionary definition shit again lol?

I was asked for a definition!

are the masculine endings i'm familiar with so i have no idea what you are even taaalking about, even though it's incredibly irrelevant.

Its not an ending, its a suffix thats masculine, sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[Tarvos]

suffixes are suffixed at the end of a word

hence, endings

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

or we could you know realize that most people don't scrutinize for weeks the fact that our words have masculist endings and oh holy fuck i didn't even realize it was one until you pointed it out so how in the hell could it have altered my conscious so it does not matter and don't take pc to the point it makes me want to strangle you.

Shouldn't you be complaining about loopy lieberal women wanting gender-neutral pronouns and then backpedaling at the speed of light when you talk yourself into a corner instead of making pointless passive-agressive comments.

 

[dolphinfish]

Just as one can be gay without participating in a pride parade, so too can one be feminist without burning any bras.

(Voted yes.)

^This.

(Also, does most of the thread actually belong in the debate section, possibly?)

 

[Saith]

I guess, maybe. I mean, I believe in equal rights for everyone blahblahblah but I don't actually, you know, do anything.

Acknowledging that privilege? That's feminism.

Oh I guess I'm not then.

EDIT: Disregard that, I guess, Dannichu posted something I agree with.

True sexual equality implimented within society would mean a complete removal of gendered expectations that are placed on people from birth - boys wouldn't be expected to go into a "man's job". If a heterosexual couple had a child, they would both recieve a parental leave, not just the mother getting a maternity leave. If a het couple with a child divorced, custody wouldn't 'automatically' go to the mother, because the "mothers are better for children" myth wouldn't exist.

That is what I agree with.

I don't understand we women can't have a default in a word in 'feminist'. Men have:
->'Men' can mean 'people' but 'women' is exclusively female
->'You guys' doesn't raise eyebrows, but 'You girls' certainly does.
->'Chairman', 'Fireman' 'Mailman' 'fisherman' 'horseman' and others can refer to both men and women.
So people are raising fuss over one word, feminism, without fussing about the others? I find that profoundly wrong.

See, this is why I hate 'feminists' (pssst I don't really). It's a fucking word. I have no problem with the word feminist, and I'm groovy with using the term men. It pisses me off when people go on about arbitrary things like this that make no difference to anything ever, and are only insulting if you want it to be insulting.

I mean, banning the Burka? Definitely. If someone had the balls to try it, I'd get behind it. Because that actually helps women.
Making abortion legal? Holy shit, yes. Because it helps women.
Banning something like Sleeping Beauty, or punishing someone for using a male pronoun? No. Fuck off. That helps no one, and just pisses people off.

I support actual feminists, people who try to get rid of gender-based things, and I admit, it's mainly helping women but that's fine because in some areas, women are disadvantaged.
But people who try to change things that don't need to be changed, people who use the word 'sexism' like it's a toy. Those people piss me off, because it helps no one, makes people hate the feminist movement, and it's just pretty retarded.

Also I hate political correctness, can you tell?

 

[Eloi]

suffixes are suffixed at the end of a word

hence, endings

Actually, Latin endings usually denote changes to the end of a sentence for grammatical purpose, wherein Latin suffixes usually denotes changes to the end of a sentence for semantic purpose.

See, this is why I hate 'feminists' (pssst I don't really). It's a fucking word. I have no problem with the word feminist, and I'm groovy with using the term men. It pisses me off when people go on about arbitrary things like this that make no difference to anything ever, and are only insulting if you want it to be insulting.

I was not the one that brought up that they disliked the word 'feminist' because it is has female connotations. I was pointing out that is hypocritical because most of the English language has male connotations, and we have but one word.

I mean, banning the Burka? Definitely. If someone had the balls to try it, I'd get behind it.

Banning anyone's right to wear something is bad. Trying to actually support the women maligned that happen to choose wearing a burka, now that is helpful.

Because that actually helps women.

That is like saying by banning church buildings it'll convince Fundies to accept LGBT people.

Making abortion legal? Holy shit, yes. Because it helps women.

Isn't it already legal? *checks location* I'm not sure about the U.K.'s policy on these things, so I'll quietly butt out of it.

Banning something like Sleeping Beauty, or punishing someone for using a male pronoun? No. Fuck off. That helps no one, and just pisses people off.

Also I hate political correctness, can you tell?

You mean being sympathetic towards people that aren't you by carefully selection your words? How could you hate that?

 

[opaltiger]

It pisses me off when people go on about arbitrary things like this that make no difference to anything ever, and are only insulting if you want it to be insulting.

It's always men who complain about people claiming everything is sexist. It's always white people who complain about people claiming everything is racist. It's always straight people who complain about people claiming everything is homophobic.

I think you see where I'm going with this. Perhaps to you it doesn't make a difference, but please consider that to other people, these things can matter greatly. See, you can say "but it's such a small thing!" or "it's just how it's always been!" or something like that. But human interaction is built on small things. Small things matter.

It's often the case that people see the status quo as okay. Making blatantly sexist remarks is bad - that's not right in our society! But making implicitly sexist remarks? Well, society is implicitly sexist. You don't notice - it's par for the course. You think it's normal. But the point isn't to compare against society as it is - we want to compare against society as it should be. And in a society where gender equality really, truly exists, these things would be blatantly sexist.

It's all about imagining things not as they are. Imagine you're someone else, and you might realise why they'd be offended by something you find innocuous. Imagine a different society, and you might realise why our society is sexist.

 

[Tarvos]

Actually, Latin endings usually denote changes to the end of a sentence for grammatical purpose, wherein Latin suffixes usually denotes changes to the end of a sentence for semantic purpose.

I know that. I studied Latin for five years. When you add something to the stem, it is called a suffix. A suffix is always at the end, hence why it's called an ending. And yes, I'm aware of the -ne endings making sentences a question. I'm not stupid.

 

[Saith]

Banning anyone's right to wear something is bad. Trying to actually support the women maligned that happen to choose wearing a burka, now that is helpful.
Oh hey more semantics. Wait, weren't you the chick who made a topic about banning the word 'rape' or something? I'll check in a bit.
But yeah, I guess you could try to persuade chicks who are already conditioned to wear the things to not wear the things, but that would take ages, and just wouldn't be efficient. Banning them helps people. It's the same reason you wouldn't let your baby brother drink petrol. I mean sure, it's tyranical and shit, you're not giving him his freedom. But at least he'll be unharmed. If you just talk to muslim chicks and explain why there's no need to wear the burka, they're gonna look at you, look at their mummy, and decide that you're full of shit.
Oh christ, that's the closest to Big Brother I've ever come, and now I feel dirty. Excuse me a second. Need to wash.

That is like saying by banning church buildings it'll convince Fundies to accept LGBT people.
It kinda would. I mean, it'd take a few generations, but if religious gatherings were outlawed, fundies would eventually just stop existing.

Isn't it already legal? *checks location* I'm not sure about the U.K.'s policy on these things, so I'll quietly butt out of it.
Not everywhere it isn't. In the UK, sure, but not, say, Afghanistan. Hell, with the growing number of fundies in America, abortion may well be banned there again, eventually.

~*~picture~*~
I don't get it? And that wasn't really directed at you. It was more just a rant against the people who give feminism a bad name.

You mean being sympathetic towards people that aren't you by carefully selection your words? How could you hate that?
It's not sympathy, though. Political correctness doesn't promote equality at all. In the end, it separates people by the fucking words they're allowed to say. I mean, I'm pretty into words, like, so this is a big deal for me, but I end up resenting people who are able to say things that I can't for dumb reasons. And I'm not talking about harmful words, but about words you'd use without referring to the group in any way at all. Because, like, I wouldn't call someone a nigger, because that would be mean. On the other hand, I'd like the right to say blackboard back, please. I'm getting tired of being bitched out by everybody when I say it.

Opal: Can you give me an example? I'm not asking that in a dickish way, mind, it's just that I want to know what you consider as that sort of thing. Because I'll probably agree. My point is, though, that eventually someone does say something is sexist, even when it isn't. That's the sort of thing I get annoyed with. I can see what you mean with, I don't know, using the male pronoun as a default (chicks using 'she' as a default is all gravy by me, by the way), but I have a friend who sincerely believes that the word 'history' is offensive. Seriously.

 

[opaltiger]

First off, please be a little more civil in future replies.

Opal: Can you give me an example? I'm not asking that in a dickish way, mind, it's just that I want to know what you consider as that sort of thing. Because I'll probably agree. My point is, though, that eventually someone does say something is sexist, even when it isn't. That's the sort of thing I get annoyed with. I can see what you mean with, I don't know, using the male pronoun as a default (chicks using 'she' as a default is all gravy by me, by the way), but I have a friend who sincerely believes that the word 'history' is offensive. Seriously.

Okay, how about this. A woman withdraws consent partway through sex, but the man doesn't stop. Most people wouldn't call that rape. That's sexist. This post has all sorts of good examples in the same vein.

Relatedly, the word 'history' would be offensive if the etymology had anything to do with the word 'his'. Agreed?

 

[Eloi]

Oh hey more semantics. Wait, weren't you the chick who made a topic about banning the word 'rape' or something? I'll check in a bit.

I love inaccurate poisoning-the-well-logical-fallacy attacks, they are so fun. No, I made a topic about whether rape jokes on television are given too much leniency.

But yeah, I guess you could try to persuade chicks who are already conditioned to wear the things to not wear the things, but that would take ages, and just wouldn't be efficient. Banning them helps people. It's the same reason you wouldn't let your baby brother drink petrol. I mean sure, it's tyranical and shit, you're not giving him his freedom. But at least he'll be unharmed. If you just talk to muslim chicks and explain why there's no need to wear the burka, they're gonna look at you, look at their mummy, and decide that you're full of shit.

If you tell them they can't where a burka in your country, they'll look at you, and move away.

Oh christ, that's the closest to Big Brother I've ever come, and now I feel dirty. Excuse me a second. Need to wash.

Yes, I do believe you are being Orwellian. And condescending.

It kinda would. I mean, it'd take a few generations, but if religious gatherings were outlawed, fundies would eventually just stop existing.

Not really, their hatred stems from psychological problems they have personally. They'd just grow separately. As well, banning all religious gatherings is another Orwellian concept you've thrown it.

Not everywhere it isn't. In the UK, sure, but not, say, Afghanistan. Hell, with the growing number of fundies in America, abortion may well be banned there again, eventually.

Okay, not sure what this reply has to do with anything.

I don't get it? And that wasn't really directed at you. It was more just a rant against the people who give feminism a bad name.

And since they only exist to prove a point against me and others like me, its a strawman.

It's not sympathy, though. Political correctness doesn't promote equality at all. In the end, it separates people by the fucking words they're allowed to say. I mean, I'm pretty into words, like, so this is a big deal for me, but I end up resenting people who are able to say things that I can't for dumb reasons. And I'm not talking about harmful words, but about words you'd use without referring to the group in any way at all. Because, like, I wouldn't call someone a nigger, because that would be mean. On the other hand, I'd like the right to say blackboard back, please. I'm getting tired of being bitched out by everybody when I say it.

Is it me or everyone doesn't like political correctness until they are spared from it. Like, if I were to call you a fucking taffy, that'd offend you probably, and you'd complain, yes? That is what political correctness is supposed to prevent, and why I don't call you mean things like a taffy.

Opal: Can you give me an example? I'm not asking that in a dickish way, mind, it's just that I want to know what you consider as that sort of thing. Because I'll probably agree. My point is, though, that eventually someone does say something is sexist, even when it isn't. That's the sort of thing I get annoyed with. I can see what you mean with, I don't know, using the male pronoun as a default (chicks using 'she' as a default is all gravy by me, by the way), but I have a friend who sincerely believes that the word 'history' is offensive. Seriously.

I have yet to see any of what you mention. Do you have any proof of it actually happening? Because a guy I met once said anecdotal evidence isn't worth a damn.

 

[Tailsy]

If you ban women from wearing the burka, that is both sexist and offensive - you're restricting the freedom of religion which should always be present. That's why France is so up in arms about it, because it's a stupid thing to do. Perhaps you don't agree with it, but that's not the issue. Women should be allowed to wear what they want. They are not children being protected from physical harm; they are fully-aware human beings who deserve the right to wear what they want.

I also dislike being referred to as a 'chick', but that's arbitrary.

 

[Eloi]

I also dislike being referred to as a 'chick', but that's arbitrary.

I second that notion.

 

[Saith]

First off, please be a little more civil in future replies.
Oh okay, my bad. o.o


Okay, how about this. A woman withdraws consent partway through sex, but the man doesn't stop. Most people wouldn't call that rape. That's sexist.
Well I mean, I suppose I don't see how that would come about, but sure it would rape. I feel really naive, because I don't think anyone I know would defend the guy, but okay.


Relatedly, the word 'history' would be offensive if the etymology had anything to do with the word 'his'. Agreed?

Well yeah.

I love inaccurate poisoning-the-well-logical-fallacy attacks, they are so fun. No, I made a topic about whether rape jokes on television are given too much leniency.
You still suggested censorship. Then again, it's a different thread, so I'm sorry I brought it up.

If you tell them they can't where a burka in your country, they'll look at you, and move away.


Yes, I do believe you are being Orwellian. And condescending.


Not really, their hatred stems from psychological problems they have personally. They'd just grow separately. As well, banning all religious gatherings is another Orwellian concept you've thrown it.
I wasn't actually suggesting it.

And since they only exist to prove a point against me and others like me, its a strawman.
What's a strawman? Like, really? I see it said a lot around here, so yeah, sorry.

Is it me or everyone doesn't like political correctness until they are spared from it. Like, if I were to call you a fucking taffy, that'd offend you probably, and you'd complain, yes? That is what political correctness is supposed to prevent, and why I don't call you mean things like a taffy.
Which is pretty much what I said. Political correctness, though, would mean I could complain if you spoke about eating taffy (that's like toffee for you guys, right?).

I have yet to see any of what you mention. Do you have any proof of it actually happening? Because a guy I met once said anecdotal evidence isn't worth a damn.
Well I mean, the 'history = his story' thing is an actual thing. But um okay, ignore it. My bad.

If you ban women from wearing the burka, that is both sexist and offensive - you're restricting the freedom of religion which should always be present. That's why France is so up in arms about it, because it's a stupid thing to do. Perhaps you don't agree with it, but that's not the issue. Women should be allowed to wear what they want. They are not children being protected from physical harm; they are fully-aware human beings who deserve the right to wear what they want.
Well I guess it's too late for me to say that I only used the word 'ban' because I didn't feel like typing anything longer, but now I feel like I want to argue this point I don't really want to make.
I mean, I guess what I was trying to say is that pressuring women to wear a Burka is what should be banned, but then I'm none too eloquent.

Sorry for the chick thing, I guess.

 

[opaltiger]

Saith: Here.

This is why people are accusing you of strawman arguments, by the way. You agree with the things we say explicitly, then rail against "those feminists [who do thinks like say history is offensive]". There will always be people who perhaps go a bit too far.