Gym Leader Choice Pokémafia 2 - Game Thread

[RNP]

not lynching you today is the real town fuck-up

 

[RNP]

my money is on tofu/negrek w/w

 

[Negrek]

Another quick thing: I don't think VM's plan is a good idea even if you trust him, because it relies on a doctor existing, which is not guaranteed. Consider that about half the living players have claimed their free actions, and Mr. Ultracool is the only one so far (other than arguably Negrek) whose action is normal. Tbqh, I wouldn't even take for granted that there's a cop.

ime at least doc, cop, and vig do tend to turn up in MF setups, even if there are other wild roles flying around. I feel reasonably confident that we have at last one fairly-standard doctor and a fairly-standard cop out there. However, this is worth thinking about; there may be weird restrictions on their investigation/healing abilities that would make this work less well than in a standard game, hmm.

the mafia could also just straight up kill VM and leave the outed cop/doctor defenseless
or if mafia had a roleblocker, they could block VM and kill cop/doctor

VM would draw the doc heal to himself, so he wouldn't die from a direct Mafia target. They could block him, but then the doc would simply heal the cop directly. They could block + kill VM in one night, but then they still wouldn't know who the doc was to block them and stop them consistently healing the cop.

I gotta run to a book club, but I'll be back later to ISO Blu and Ultracool and place my vote. Still leaning Ultracool at this point.

 

[bruh moment]

I think 1) is out, since Tofu was mentioning her badge distribution ability right from the get-go, just in weird terms.

do you think so? other people had been talking about badge distribution already by that point. i don't think it's unreasonable at all that she/the other mafia had picked up on it by that point and were simply trying to blend in. the "weird terms" you describe would fit that scenario, since she would be trying to discuss the badge mechanic by taking cues from town, without having anything to go on from her role pm. the subsequent backtracking would be a reaction to better understanding how the badge mechanic works.

this post kind of touches on speculation in a similar vein, about how the colorful scatter thing might have arisen in a w!tofu situation. we're curious what you think about that, too, if it's not too much trouble.
-q

 

[Bluwiikoon]

I think the colorful scatter thing clicked for me because someone else isolated the part of the post that I quoted about it. I was really puzzling hard about it because it seemed weird to me that a secondary power could just... be the same cantrip that everyone has with badges? I think I got too excited about solving a thing and ended up making a bad move, if Tofu is w (like RNP pointed out)

 

[JackPK]

I think 1) is out, since Tofu was mentioning her badge distribution ability right from the get-go, just in weird terms.

do you think so? other people had been talking about badge distribution already by that point.

not to mention that badge distribution was already explicitly explained in the signup thread (but the exact form it would take in role PMs wasn't)

 

[rari_teh]

i’m preëmptively sorry for whatever bad take i may come up with because i’m most definitely not in the right headspace for mafia, but today is EoD and i Must Play The Bloody Game

Ok here's a theory. Either Negrek and bm are scumbuddies and they're powerwolfing or maybe bm is right and it's Tofu and maybe Blu and vm (and rari and Jack based on people who defended Tofu or w[ere unwilling to vote for her] ? . I reread some of Tofu's posts and they do give pause. Like the role PM correction people mentioned with blu's help. But wouldn't w!Blu nudge w!Tofu about her pm through the scumchat? Plus bm said it was nai? And do Skylar and mewtini tunnel as wolves? rari seemed to think they were unnecessarily tunneling but didn't scumread them based on that. Also I was thinking a lot of yesterday's discussion just felt like sidetracks. Like the discussion of whether there's mafia or not (because there hasn't been any mafs dead yet? But only three people have died. Isn't it too early to speculate like that based on only 3 deaths?) hmm.

i didn’t think they were unnecessarily tunneling? i tried my best to make clear that their reasoning made sense but i thought they weren’t being generous enough/weren’t giving the possibility of a royal town fuckup a chance, sorry if i failed on that

my no mafia theory didn’t hinge solely on the fact that we flipped two 3ps and no mafia; as i repeatedly said yesterday, i know something that i am most definitely not comfortable making public yet that may suggest there is no mafia after all. i don’t think this is the case anymore because bruh said that their role pm mentions mafia-aligned players and they are frankly all but conftown since they were the first to cite the town wincon’s wording, which checks out with the town wincon i got in my role pm.

well, just thining on if tofu is mafia then who could be her team. As I see it, blu for the reasons already mentioned, how he tried to help her out. It also possibly implicates VM for also defending her or maybe not outright defending but not considering the possibility that she may be maf? And possibly rari for the defense (and tbf the seeming flailing. Which sorry rari but it doesn't look too good :( )

can’t blame anyone but me for my mistakes, if tofu flips red tonight i’ll definitely be the largest clown in town
at least i will enjoy the fine company of jack and negrek in the circus, apparently, but that’s a whole ’nother story

i am having a hard time to grasp what people in general are seeing in blu to suss him in connection with tofu? it really doesn’t make sense for a wolf to provide a plausible fakeclaim suggestion for their partner in public view, at all

It's notable that Tofu's claim here doesn't quite match what she says about it later. Here, she says that she can copy someone's action and then use it on the next night or day. Later on, she says that she acquires the action immediately (although she's not told what it is), and can then use it on the same night, or queue it up to be used the next day if it's a day action. That could be an honest mistake, but then I would expect her to acknowledge the contradiction.

this is. not a good look indeed.

my thoughts on the wagons:

- ultracool is in his towngame. judging from my experience as scum with him in cats, i’d be a bit surprised if he flipped red
- i might be being extra-silly here, but i’ll die in tofu’s pocket
- i still think the entire foundation of a blu wagon makes no sense. koko’s casing hinges on an extremely flimsy w/w association read with tofu (which, as bruh and ysa pointed out, if valid would be best resolved by flipping tofu) and on cherry-picked bluposts in response to tofu that he’d frankly make in response to anybody else
- i don’t think negrek is mafia anymore

if i were to start a wagon, /maybe/ it would be koko because i’ve been getting weird vibes from em since d1, but those always dissipate after i iso em so ?_?
i have a slight hunch that i found a kokoscumtell and, if i did, e’s most likely maf here, but. i am not confident on my read.

 

[qenya]

i honestly don’t think this makes a lot of sense. for one it kind of sounds like you’re saying “i’m voting blu over tofu because he did an action,” which... huh? i agree there’s some w/w equity but i think w!tofu suggests a possible w!blu; it’s not even damning and i don’t really see the advantage in pushing blu alongside her. makes way more sense to flip tofu and then sort blu based on that.

hhhhhhh

I do totally get where you're coming from, don't get me wrong, but half the reason people are sussing Tofu at all is that Blu's leap of logic over Colorful Scatter was hella weird. If not those interactions with him, I highly doubt she would have attracted this much attention - even the other stuff you've pointed out isn't really conclusive on its own. I'm honestly struggling to envisage a plausible world where they're anti-aligned at all.

Either way it doesn't look as if anyone other than Tofu is getting yeeted today, so perhaps this doesn't really matter. It just kind of feels like a missed opportunity.

i have a slight hunch that i found a kokoscumtell

oh, this'll be good. always interesting to hear what people think my "meta" is.

 

[qenya]

I'm honestly struggling to envisage a plausible world where they're anti-aligned at all.

(In fact, if they were antialigned I would say v Tofu/w Blu was more likely than the reverse; at least in that scenario I can kind of see him trying to either pocket her or, less likely, frame her.)

 

[bruh moment]

I do totally get where you're coming from, don't get me wrong, but half the reason people are sussing Tofu at all is that Blu's leap of logic over Colorful Scatter was hella weird. If not those interactions with him, I highly doubt she would have attracted this much attention - even the other stuff you've pointed out isn't really conclusive on its own. I'm honestly struggling to envisage a plausible world where they're anti-aligned at all.

mm, not really? i feel like this kind of misses the point in a big way. yeah, blu was involved in the series of events that's causing us to scumread tofu, but the association basically ends there. she attracted attention because she fucked up her roleclaim in a suspcious way, and she did that all by herself. blu was just trying to figure out what her role was based on the spotty information she'd provided, which could go either way.
-q

 

[bruh moment]

half the reason people are sussing Tofu at all

it's ... not tbh? this doesn't really make sense, i am also kiiiind of side-eyeing everyone who's trying to clamp down hard on tofu w -> blu w atm because i think it's premature
the reason blu suggesting that matters isn't because he said it, it's because tofu went "lol oh yeah that's exactly it" with no lead-up, at any point, across the multiple posts where she'd been claiming and reclaiming her role.

(In fact, if they were antialigned I would say v Tofu/w Blu was more likely than the reverse; at least in that scenario I can kind of see him trying to either pocket her or, less likely, frame her.)

if i assume he goes to work within "What I Imagine A Wolf Would Do" (read: semiuseless conjecture maybe) idk why w blu wouldn't just let her flail tbh. if they're antialigned then it's pretty normally-helpful blu trying to guess at role descriptions and w!tofu taking the easy way out
-m

 

[bruh moment]

Ninja'd By Myself

 

[bruh moment]

wahoo, hydrinja!

 

[bruh moment]

wahoo, hydrinja!

omfg.

It just kind of feels like a missed opportunity.

missed opportunity for what exactly
-m

 

[bruh moment]

very sorry for the series of posts here, corrections + additions:

(In fact, if they were antialigned I would say v Tofu/w Blu was more likely than the reverse; at least in that scenario I can kind of see him trying to either pocket her or, less likely, frame her.)

if i assume he goes to work within "What I Imagine A Wolf Would Do" (read: semiuseless conjecture maybe) idk why w blu wouldn't just let her flail tbh. if they're antialigned *the reverse way, then it's pretty normally-helpful blu trying to guess at role descriptions and w!tofu taking the easy way out

it's important to note that tbh if blu had said nothing i think the thread would have fully jumped on her, which is part of where the partnery read comes from but also doesn't have anything to do with tofu's claim or the subsequent analysis of said claim
which is why i don't realllly know why w!blu ever pops in at that moment and gives v!tofu the easy way out in that situation. pushing a weird townie at that point makes more sense to me than "let's go in for the pocket"

(and to be clear, this is about the antialigned scenario, specifically. not a direct read on blu here)
-m

 

[Bluwiikoon]

BM I'm interested to see if you have a reads list, if you haven't posted one recently already! ^^

re: kokorico vibes, I was thinking if VM was jailer then the fact that he used an action on koko would implicate em, since there was no nightkill on N0 But apparently VM's power is just redirection. That's how my train of thought went, anyhoo!

 

[M&F]

three more hours!

the votecount remains as it was in the previous count

 

[Ys_]

i’m preëmptively sorry for whatever bad take i may come up with because i’m most definitely not in the right headspace for mafia, but today is EoD and i Must Play The Bloody Game

omg don't strain yourself <3

Ok here's a theory. Either Negrek and bm are scumbuddies and they're powerwolfing or maybe bm is right and it's Tofu and maybe Blu and vm (and rari and Jack based on people who defended Tofu or w[ere unwilling to vote for her] ? . I reread some of Tofu's posts and they do give pause. Like the role PM correction people mentioned with blu's help. But wouldn't w!Blu nudge w!Tofu about her pm through the scumchat? Plus bm said it was nai? And do Skylar and mewtini tunnel as wolves? rari seemed to think they were unnecessarily tunneling but didn't scumread them based on that. Also I was thinking a lot of yesterday's discussion just felt like sidetracks. Like the discussion of whether there's mafia or not (because there hasn't been any mafs dead yet? But only three people have died. Isn't it too early to speculate like that based on only 3 deaths?) hmm.

i didn’t think they were unnecessarily tunneling? i tried my best to make clear that their reasoning made sense but i thought they weren’t being generous enough/weren’t giving the possibility of a royal town fuckup a chance, sorry if i failed on that
[/QUOTE]
omg no worries, I misinterpreted you then, and thanks for clarifying. Maybe I misinterpreted based on how I felt, which was that they were only focusing/pushing on Tofuthoughts, but I can also see it coming from frustrated v!bm so makes sense.

my no mafia theory didn’t hinge solely on the fact that we flipped two 3ps and no mafia; as i repeatedly said yesterday, i know something that i am most definitely not comfortable making public yet that may suggest there is no mafia after all. i don’t think this is the case anymore because bruh said that their role pm mentions mafia-aligned players and they are frankly all but conftown since they were the first to cite the town wincon’s wording, which checks out with the town wincon i got in my role pm.

mkay. I wasn't just looking at you but also at others who seemed to follow the theory. Like I mentioned, it felt like trying to sidetrack discussion. The way I saw it was, does it really matter? Or like, would people change their plays based on the possibility of no mafs? Maybe not much except to consider antitown as separate independant factions, but the rationale we get in dayplay still applies.

well, just thinking on if tofu is mafia then who could be her team. As I see it, blu for the reasons already mentioned, how he tried to help her out. It also possibly implicates VM for also defending her or maybe not outright defending but not considering the possibility that she may be maf? And possibly rari for the defense (and tbf the seeming flailing. Which sorry rari but it doesn't look too good :( )

can’t blame anyone but me for my mistakes, if tofu flips red tonight i’ll definitely be the largest clown in town
at least i will enjoy the fine company of jack and negrek in the circus, apparently, but that’s a whole ’nother story

i am having a hard time to grasp what people in general are seeing in blu to suss him in connection with tofu? it really doesn’t make sense for a wolf to provide a plausible fakeclaim suggestion for their partner in public view, at all

yeah, that's partly what I thought and partly why I didn't like the possibility of her being mafia. More or less because it implicates people I see as towny but *shrug*

my thoughts on the wagons:

- ultracool is in his towngame. judging from my experience as scum with him in cats, i’d be a bit surprised if he flipped red
- i might be being extra-silly here, but i’ll die in tofu’s pocket
- i still think the entire foundation of a blu wagon makes no sense. koko’s casing hinges on an extremely flimsy w/w association read with tofu (which, as bruh and ysa pointed out, if valid would be best resolved by flipping tofu) and on cherry-picked bluposts in response to tofu that he’d frankly make in response to anybody else
- i don’t think negrek is mafia anymore

if i were to start a wagon, /maybe/ it would be koko because i’ve been getting weird vibes from em since d1, but those always dissipate after i iso em so ?_?
i have a slight hunch that i found a kokoscumtell and, if i did, e’s most likely maf here, but. i am not confident on my read.
[/QUOTE]
hmm fair enough. Maybe toMorrow. I wanted to take a look but got sidetracked with the Tofu stuff and now I kind of want to do other rl stuff. Though feel free to quote me or @ me anyone. I'll be around, just not super engaged.

-
ily all and remember it's just a game :3 <3 (really tho. mafia is no fun at all if you take it too seriously)

 

[Ys_]

Spoiler: Fixed formatting

i’m preëmptively sorry for whatever bad take i may come up with because i’m most definitely not in the right headspace for mafia, but today is EoD and i Must Play The Bloody Game

omg don't strain yourself <3

Ok here's a theory. Either Negrek and bm are scumbuddies and they're powerwolfing or maybe bm is right and it's Tofu and maybe Blu and vm (and rari and Jack based on people who defended Tofu or w[ere unwilling to vote for her] ? . I reread some of Tofu's posts and they do give pause. Like the role PM correction people mentioned with blu's help. But wouldn't w!Blu nudge w!Tofu about her pm through the scumchat? Plus bm said it was nai? And do Skylar and mewtini tunnel as wolves? rari seemed to think they were unnecessarily tunneling but didn't scumread them based on that. Also I was thinking a lot of yesterday's discussion just felt like sidetracks. Like the discussion of whether there's mafia or not (because there hasn't been any mafs dead yet? But only three people have died. Isn't it too early to speculate like that based on only 3 deaths?) hmm.

i didn’t think they were unnecessarily tunneling? i tried my best to make clear that their reasoning made sense but i thought they weren’t being generous enough/weren’t giving the possibility of a royal town fuckup a chance, sorry if i failed on that

omg no worries, I misinterpreted you then, and thanks for clarifying. Maybe I misinterpreted based on how I felt, which was that they were only focusing/pushing on Tofuthoughts, but I can also see it coming from frustrated v!bm so makes sense.

my no mafia theory didn’t hinge solely on the fact that we flipped two 3ps and no mafia; as i repeatedly said yesterday, i know something that i am most definitely not comfortable making public yet that may suggest there is no mafia after all. i don’t think this is the case anymore because bruh said that their role pm mentions mafia-aligned players and they are frankly all but conftown since they were the first to cite the town wincon’s wording, which checks out with the town wincon i got in my role pm.

mkay. I wasn't just looking at you but also at others who seemed to follow the theory. Like I mentioned, it felt like trying to sidetrack discussion. The way I saw it was, does it really matter? Or like, would people change their plays based on the possibility of no mafs? Maybe not much except to consider antitown as separate independant factions, but the rationale we get in dayplay still applies.

well, just thinking on if tofu is mafia then who could be her team. As I see it, blu for the reasons already mentioned, how he tried to help her out. It also possibly implicates VM for also defending her or maybe not outright defending but not considering the possibility that she may be maf? And possibly rari for the defense (and tbf the seeming flailing. Which sorry rari but it doesn't look too good :( )

can’t blame anyone but me for my mistakes, if tofu flips red tonight i’ll definitely be the largest clown in town
at least i will enjoy the fine company of jack and negrek in the circus, apparently, but that’s a whole ’nother story

i am having a hard time to grasp what people in general are seeing in blu to suss him in connection with tofu? it really doesn’t make sense for a wolf to provide a plausible fakeclaim suggestion for their partner in public view, at all

yeah, that's partly what I thought and partly why I didn't like the possibility of her being mafia. More or less because it implicates people I see as towny but *shrug*

my thoughts on the wagons:

- ultracool is in his towngame. judging from my experience as scum with him in cats, i’d be a bit surprised if he flipped red
- i might be being extra-silly here, but i’ll die in tofu’s pocket
- i still think the entire foundation of a blu wagon makes no sense. koko’s casing hinges on an extremely flimsy w/w association read with tofu (which, as bruh and ysa pointed out, if valid would be best resolved by flipping tofu) and on cherry-picked bluposts in response to tofu that he’d frankly make in response to anybody else
- i don’t think negrek is mafia anymore

if i were to start a wagon, /maybe/ it would be koko because i’ve been getting weird vibes from em since d1, but those always dissipate after i iso em so ?_?
i have a slight hunch that i found a kokoscumtell and, if i did, e’s most likely maf here, but. i am not confident on my read.

hmm fair enough. Maybe toMorrow. I wanted to take a look but got sidetracked with the Tofu stuff and now I kind of want to do other rl stuff. Though feel free to quote me or @ me anyone. I'll be around, just not super engaged.

-
ily all and remember it's just a game :3 <3 (really tho. mafia is no fun at all if you take it too seriously)
also lmao rip formatting again

 

[qenya]

@bruh moment uh. both halves of you kind of asked the same questions so I'm just gonna try to answer in prose rather than quote-replying:

I think I'm gonna go reread Tofu's original claim sequence one more time quickly, because we seem to be remembering it slightly differently, but I really don't see how you can say that she "fucked up her roleclaim all by herself". As I recall it, the part people were initially finding odd was that she seemed to be saying she only had one action other than the badge distribution, unlike everyone else; as Negrek pointed out, that isn't really AI in itself. Then she explained that she had misread her role PM and discovered that she had a second action (the badge redistribution), having previously confused it with the after-death badge distribution that everyone gets; again, that's a perfectly understandable mistake. The suspicious part is that she only "discovered" the second action after Blu inexplicably figured out exactly what it was, and then she appeared almost immediately after his post to acknowledge and confirm it, in a way that he'd previously done to several of her posts. I don't really see how that happens without some sort of coordination between them.

By "missed opportunity", I mean that by selecting our yeet (Tofu) early in the day and nothing else really happening to alter the wagon's course, we don't get any information much from pushing on other people. I mean, think about it - what new non-Tofu-related information have we got today? Negrek's claim and, uh, philosophical grounding (not sure what else to call it), Jack's and Mr Ultracool's night action results, and... nothing else? Maybe you've hit on some fabulous series of reads that I'm clueless about, but from my point of view, this day has been pretty unfruitful. My tierlist looks pretty much the same as it did yesterday; I can post it if you're interested, but it's unlikely to be very illuminating.

I think on balance I'm going to switch to Tofu, because I'm not going to be around for EoD, don't know what might happen between now and then, and don't want to risk the possibility of a non-Tofu non-Blu wagon somehow arising. But I'm still not at all convinced by the v!Blu arguments so far.

ily all and remember it's just a game :3 <3 (really tho. mafia is no fun at all if you take it too seriously)

Thank you for this. A much-needed reminder!