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Gym Leader Choice Pokémafia 2 - Game Thread

Okay, I have some thoughts on what happened last Night, some likely and unlikely scenarios of what went down. First is that both kills were made by the Mafia. I find this unlikely, unless there's some restriction shenanigans like only being able to kill every other night but they have two kills. Next up is either 1 Mafia 1 Vig or 1 Mafia 1 Serial Killer. This one is strange to figure out, since we already had Zori claim vig, but they were 3p. Does that make her an SK equivalent? Is there a town-aligned vig? I can buy an SK attack, since I'm aware of several 3p killing roles with time-restricted kills. However, I have a third scenario, where Herbe himself was not actually targeted for death. Now, Zori claimed to have a drawback passive, and I'd bet that Herbe did too. Y'see, Neigborizers, Masons, and Cultists—and there's no way to know which Herbe actually was—all tend to have the downside of dying when they try to recruit Mafia members. For reasons I'll likely get into tomorrow, I think this is what killed Herbe, and then Hydrei prob just took the scumkill.
 
Random Tofu thoughts: Tofu has never played a Gen 6 or 7 game and would not know what Vivillion’s moves are from memory. If she had to look up moves for a fakeclaim, I highly doubt she would make up “Colorful Scatter” as an ability since this would seem to her like an obvious scumtell. Based on my understanding of her as town, there isn’t really anything she has done so far that she wouldn’t do as town, and the more I think about it the more I have to townlean her. I’m only holding back from full-on townreading her because of her alien play in Push the Button.

Mr. Ultracool said:
Vipera Magnifica said:
@Mr. Ultracool who did you watch last night?
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I think I meowde somewhat of a meowstake last night 😿 Apparently, the Mafia didn't visit me-owfter all...
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aaand I am back to SRing Ultracool. If doesn’t make sense to me that he would go on with his “plan” to watch himself after we pointed out the many problems with that plan, and he never confirmed how he would use some way to distribute the badges to implicate the mafia if he did go through with it. So even if he did get killed by the mafia (which is assuming they wouldn’t just kill someone else because ???) then his death would have likely been in vain. I feel like UC would know better than to play like that as town.
 
I was fully prepared to start a Negrek wagon if Zori flipped mafia, but why make a whole scene about wanting to abstain and not just vote Zori if they weren't aligned together? Unless Negrek knew that Zori was inevitably going to be yeeted and wanted to seem against it for towncred.

Also wow, this has been like... 4? 5? games in a row where Seshas doesn't make it past D1
 
Vipera Magnifica said:
If doesn’t make sense to me that he would go on with his “plan” to watch himself after we pointed out the many problems with that plan, a
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Well, I tought that it was someowhat of a WIFOM-meowment - it would be better if I hadn't watched meowself rather than someown else - thus making that the best course of action and the one the Meowfia would expect, meowking it better for them to kill an inforole like me 😿
Vipera Magnifica said:
and he never confirmed how he would use some way to distribute the badges to implicate the mafia if he did go through with it.
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I did - I wanted to use the list of playernameows on Page meowone, giving it to the person beneath the Mafia Meowmber...
 
rari_teh said:
Tofu said:
So far I'm guessing the badges can only be distributed on someone's death? I kind of doubt there would be an action where it's just like "give a badge to someone once" because that would be a waste of an ability space?
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@Tofu could you clarify what you meant by “that would be a waste of an ability space” considering that according to this later post:
Tofu said:
Neither of my abilities cost badges, and my Vivillon's "move" is to give my two bug badges after I die, so it isn't really an ability.
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you were assuming that your second ability was simply giving your two badges upon death?
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That first part you quoted, I was referring to an ability where someone has an ability to target someone and give them a badge. Not something they collected from someone else or whatever, but like, give one single badge to a player of your choice, because I was guessing that the badge mechanic itself was only triggered by someone dying, rather than there being a badge-distributor role. Obviously, this was based on my own role (that I incorrectly interpreted the first time, but either way, it was still that I had to die to give out any badges). I'm not sure at the moment whether I still believe that mechanic applies to everyone, though, because it sounds inefficient and less fun, especially with people with roles that cost multiple badges to use.

Yeah so, about the confusion over my role: I thought I clarified it in the below post but I didn't want to post about it a bunch of times because 1) it made me look inconsistent and I'm trying to live until I can use my one good ability with more confidence and 2) sometimes me talking too much makes me look more guilty because I type a lot.

Also, a thing I just thought of that no one mentioned; early on I asked for people not to give me their badges, because I don't have any abilities that cost badges. So, if I were hiding a second ability, it would probably cost badges to use, since my first one doesn't (just seeing the pattern here, again, that some people have a free and a cost ability). So, why would I tell people not to give me anything?

Okay, my role pm, which I know I can't copy-paste here, is formatted with my copycat role first. Then, the line under it, it lists the colorful scatter role where I redistribute any badges I have collected so far. The line under it is the separate "badge feature" one where it says when I die, I can distribute two. After I posted about my copycat role, I hadn't reopened the role pm to double check it before I commented on my secondary role to redistribute things after I died, and honestly I just combined it in my brain because I initially skimmed it because I didn't really understand the badge mechanic, it said it triggered automatically when I died, I didn't have anything that cost badges, and didn't start out with any badges, so I got confused/didn't really care about that second ability because it wasn't as fun and I couldn't manually trigger it. Like, because of me misreading my role, I didn't even realize people HAD two abilities at all, and thought it perfectly normal mine was like that. I know it can be made to not look great but that's my real explanation at this point. (I honestly did realize it before Blu posted, because I went back to look, and vm def heard me say "oh shit" sitting at the table next to him when I realized I messed up, but I didn't say anything because we are ~not talking about mafia~ and that just burdens him with trying to defend me, which is dumb). I was toiling over whether I should post more and draw even more attention to it, or be petrified in silence and hope people forget about it, when Blu posted the below (also thanks, for real, but idk if it helped either of us lol). I didn't want it to become a thing people talked about, like, I die early in the game because people have no idea who to vote for and go on tone reads and inconsistencies).

That last sentence also explains my Zori vote. Like, really what stood out to me was partially the badge claim (I didn't think it'd be fair to have a costly vig and because I didn't have roles that cost badges, I wasn't really sure that was feasible? Again just sort of subtle reads) and I found it a little odd saying they dropped 8 badges when they die (as a joke, and then went back on it, but still, idk, weird vibe). I know they are minor things but seriously, I don't think anyone else had much more to go on, I mean, it was D1, and once other people started voting Zori and explaining why, it sort of reaffirmed my light suspicions and ey, that's'a mafia.

(keeping my initial response to Blu here in case people want to look again)

Tofu said:
Bluwiikoon said:
Oh, wait!
Tofu said:
Idk it just said "colorful scatter" was the move and I give away my badges through it. It made sense to me when I read it because it was like, I dead but my Pokemon isn't, so it helped me out? Maybe it's just to balance the power of my other role by making my Pokemon's role not really do anything, idk M&F's mind.
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Are you saying you can redistribute extra badges that you've received from other people?
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Um, wow, yes, I was just trying to come up with a way to say this in a way that didn't make me sound ridiculous. I didn't look at my PM when I was typing that post and, um, I can just say woops and beg for forgiveness.

Okay, the colorful scatter thing is this: I can distribute any badges I have acquired, after I die, to any combination of people I want.

In addition, my death ones are to distribute two bug badges to anyone I choose.

But yeah, for the colorful scatter to happen, I have to be dead, and it doesn't cost anything to activate.
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myuma where are you

react to this post if yr role doesn't let you speak
 
anyways: tofu i respect and cherish you as part of this community but you are lying out of your ass blatantly rn

the reason i told bluwii not to give you a credible claim was bc that's an easy way out for ya. "oh shit i fucked up reading my role and it's exactly that thing you said, oops,"


there's a lot of possibilities in my mind of varying tinfoilness

*tofu is yet another tp whose only objective is to die or is the real activated alien
*tofu is still a tp who has no abilities and has to blend in with the crowd and survive
*tofu is mafia and mafia have role pm's structured unlike town role pm's
*tofu is literally just that much of a dumbass who thought the two different "give badges" functions were just the same thing
*there actually is no mafia and all the scum are tp's?
*tofu is roleblocked by obtaining badges
*more conspiracy theories to come when the room stops spinning
 
It's counterproductive of me to keep going over the fact that I misread something. I fucked up and if that means people decide to yeet me, then whatever; that's how this game goes sometimes, but again, since I don't have concrete reads on other people, since two self-aligned players have died and one town (who was, imo, very obviously town), I assume other people don't exactly either, so it would be a natural choice to look at me since, like I said, I fucked up. I'm 1000% over it and don't have anything else to say. At this point I'll just wait for someone else to say something weird and hopefully people move on from me before EOD. /wifom

I thought of copying vm's ability and using it on myself next night phase, if that's possible, to protect me from vigging (or mafia, if they care), but that would be a panic move and wasting something otherwise useful, and won't keep me from a yeet toDay, obviously.

On another note, I've been kind of quietly watching UC and wondering why he wants (meowfia specifically) to kill him? I'm guessing he may have a useful role triggered by him dying (or someone visiting him like in Tarot mafia). I also remember that, last night phase, he was supposed to watch me, but, if that happened, I didn't get any sort of notification (not that I would, really), so he either watched himself, or someone else. Ftr I do believe he has a watching ability based on the events of the first night phase/the discussion afterwards, but could have a second ability triggered by death or visitation, in addition to distributing his one death badge.

I hesitate to straight up vote for UC yet for the reason that, if they are outgroup mafia, a kitty yeet could trigger an ability that would help meowfia. I know that's bastardy but it doesn't seem out of place based on some of the other roles so far. Just my theory though. Would like thoughts on why kitty wants to die.
 
Ok so.. I reread some things yesterday and I'm more confident about VM as town.

Also what does neighbourizer mean/do? Is it similar to a cult?

As for Tofu. I agree some of those things rari and bm quoted seem fishy but it also doesn't seem like anything mafia would do? Seems like a lot of it would actually be against mafia's interests. Maybe a cop could check her to make sure though
 
I think I'm more inclined to be suspicious of Negrek than Tofu today, but I want to wait until Negrek comes in and replies (or spends a suspiciously long amount of time not replying...?) before I place my vote.

I want to outline the thinking I've been doing overnight on the matter, but I'm too lazy to go back and pull quote citations so sorry for the unbroken wall of text:

I liked rari's thoughts about Negrek a lot; I think they made sense and felt plausible and solvey. Springboarding off that, I tried to process-of-elimination some alternate worlds for the RNP/Negrek interactions. these are the worlds I think are plausible:
  • w Negrek/v RNP feels like it makes the most sense to me. making up an implausible bullshit claim to try to catch someone is tbh very in character for RNP's villager game (I don't think I've seen his scum game, or if I have I don't remember it, but I feel like I gutread RNP as being too impulsive to be able to believably channel his villager game as scum). Negrek's pushing on that claim not in a skeptical way but in a curious way feels more scum than villager to me, but not necessarily automatically scum
  • v Negrek/v RNP where Negrek is just overcurious feels like the next most likely world. it's not great play but it's believable
and these are the worlds I don't think are plausible:
  • v Negrek/w RNP requires both overcurious!Negrek and scum-believably-channeling-his-villager-game!RNP and I think both of those things are unlikely, so I think it's especially unlikely that they overlap. in a v Negrek/w RNP scenario I think I would also expect RNP to immediately and aggressively jump on Negrek's questions to paint them as suspicious instead of just softing it with a "bullshit" acronym
  • w Negrek/w RNP is not possible in my mind because this is just a dumb thing to do as wolf theater? if it were wolf theater, I think they could/should have predicted there is no way neither of them comes off looking bad from it. on the other hand this leads me to a wifom situation like "what if they orchestrated that to make RNP look townier?" but on the other other hand that would also be dumb to do as wolf theater honestly
so long story short I think I'm kind of reading their interaction as more town-indicative of RNP than anything-indicative of Negrek, but I do still read Negrek somewhat more likely to be scum than villager

as for Tofu, I'm sorry if this is bringing out-of-game considerations into the matter that shouldn't be brought in, but my automatic gutread in any VM/Tofu game is that, since they live together IRL, they would have subliminally noticed things IRL to suspect each other if they were anti-aligned and that would factor into their reads of each other in the thread (even if they don't consciously intend it). since that doesn't feel like it's happening, I feel like they are aligned, and I am moderately strongly townreading VM so that leads me to townread Tofu as well
 
kokorico said:
I'm almost at the point of wondering if there's an ingroup at all, though maybe it's a bit premature to be thinking about that.
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... why?
we haven't had any outgroup flips
kokorico said:
@bruh moment , you said earlier that you were going to try to formulate some thoughts on Mawile, what did you come up with?
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lol we ended up at null. i was TLing him for the hydreigon pressure vote (as i think i posted) but felt mildly bad/coasty vibes elsewhere, and then on reread/discussion w skylar, realized that the first thing was NAI and the second was probably paranoia
Mr. Ultracool said:
Vipera Magnifica said:
@Mr. Ultracool who did you watch last night?
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I think I meowde somewhat of a meowstake last night 😿 Apparently, the Mafia didn't visit me-owfter all...
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[surprised pikachu face]
anyway. i still disagree that this is +w points (i'd say null, personally) even if it is frustrating. what reason does mafia have to go through with this - koko said this earlier, but what pro-wolf outcome comes about if he lucks out, pigs fly, and his plan somehow 'works'? versus a pro-town outcome. it's misguided but i still struggle to see a reason to SR it aside from "it doesn't make objective sense," but like, that isn't an inherently scummy thing in this context imo
Vipera Magnifica said:
If she had to look up moves for a fakeclaim, I highly doubt she would make up “Colorful Scatter” as an ability since this would seem to her like an obvious scumtell.
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well ... we aren't really saying 'colorful scatter' doesn't exist. we also think it's perfectly plausible that her duplicator role DOES exist. it doesn't make the flow of the claim work any better; there's still some moment where she contradicted herself. we don't think that there's a way for it to have happened like that without an overt lie somewhere in there
Ysabel said:
Also what does neighbourizer mean/do? Is it similar to a cult?
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lets you open a PM with someone in the game
Ysabel said:
As for Tofu. I agree some of those things rari and bm quoted seem fishy but it also doesn't seem like anything mafia would do? Seems like a lot of it would actually be against mafia's interests. Maybe a cop could check her to make sure though
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why wouldn't it seem like something mafia would do tbh
and in particular, why does doubling back on the claim would it seem like something /town/ would ever do?

-m
 
JackPK said:
as for Tofu, I'm sorry if this is bringing out-of-game considerations into the matter that shouldn't be brought in, but my automatic gutread in any VM/Tofu game is that, since they live together IRL, they would have subliminally noticed things IRL to suspect each other if they were anti-aligned and that would factor into their reads of each other in the thread (even if they don't consciously intend it). since that doesn't feel like it's happening, I feel like they are aligned, and I am moderately strongly townreading VM so that leads me to townread Tofu as well
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Tofu said:
I honestly did realize it before Blu posted, because I went back to look, and vm def heard me say "oh shit" sitting at the table next to him when I realized I messed up, but I didn't say anything because we are ~not talking about mafia~ and that just burdens him with trying to defend me, which is dumb
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brief aside, but can we please avoid making IRL-based reads or comments like this, it really just isn't fair/productive and it doesn't. help. we already saw how it worked out in endgame cats :| the firsthand IRL reads are already uncomfortable and not in the spirit of the game, going another layer beyond that to "well, since they're together in-person, they would probably ..." is even more untenable.

especially side-eyeing tofu for saying that she didn’t mention it to him before because she knew better, only to bring it up now for no clear reason other than for cred.
 
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