How did your religious beliefs (or lack of them) come about for you?

[Eloi]

Well, I was Catholic and then called it all bullshit when I hit puberty, and now I'm an atheist. No...wait...that's not what happened, but it is odd how many times that story (more or less) has been stated in more or less that fashion. I would go out on a limb here and say that Catholicism represents the very worst in what is wrong with organized religion, and as such, I am not surprised a now-Atheists' first experience with religion would be Catholicism. However, y'all are happy and such without belief in anything outside of what the five human senses can tell you about the multi-verse, and that's fine with me, I think as long as people are happy without infringing the happiness of others' (or trying as much as possible not to infringe the happiness of others'), they have their stuff figured out. However, I was born into a household where my mother shows how talented of a psychic she is (without even trying) ever single day, and my best friend (now boy friend) did/does the same thing, so not believing in a higher power would be *extremely* silly, I have been given so much evidence, personally, that it'd be ignorant not to believe. And I use the word "believe" loosely. I have observed, and I believe I observed accurately. If that makes sense.

 

[surskitty]

I would go out on a limb here and say that Catholicism represents the very worst in what is wrong with organized religion

I for one think it's important to recognise a distinction between what the Catholic church does and what Catholics tend to actually believe. :/ It's probably a safe assumption that most Catholics do not approve of most of the bullshit the church tends to do.

 

[Eloi]

I for one think it's important to recognise a distinction between what the Catholic church does and what Catholics tend to actually believe. :/ It's probably a safe assumption that most Catholics do not approve of most of the bullshit the church tends to do.

But, if one is Catholic, one is supposed to approve of what the church does, yes?

 

[surskitty]

Yes, but the church is supposed to not be doing many incredibly fucked up things.

 

[Furiianda]

Wait what is this serious I don't know ):

However, I was born into a household where my mother shows how talented of a psychic she is (without even trying) ever single day, and my best friend (now boy friend) did/does the same thing, so not believing in a higher power would be *extremely* silly, I have been given so much evidence, personally, that it'd be ignorant not to believe. And I use the word "believe" loosely. I have observed, and I believe I observed accurately. If that makes sense.

Funny, my uncle said the same thing to me last week; basically that psychic powers point to evidence of God.
I've no idea what exactly you have seen, but it doesn't make much sense to me that God would uh, tell people who is calling them on the phone before they pick it up or whatever... (a popular example, one my uncle used as well)
Some people will say it's all coincidence, which is likely I guess, but even if it isn't, what does it necessarily have to do with God anyway? (:
(If that's not what you meant by "higher power" then my apologies!)

As for my beliefs, my family is pretty much entirely atheist so uh, cool beans.
I went to an... uh... some kind of Christian school when I was little, and of course we had some crummy religious education class -entirely- about Christianity and all that...
I think it always kind of confused me, like, how can anyone know if there's heaven and hell because once they die they can't come back to life! *Cue child's brain exploding*...
Uh, and I had some cool Wiccan friends for a while who showed me some things about the religion, and it was pretty cool, but I never really followed anything seriously. So agnostic pretty much describes my whole life (: (close enough to atheist too, but hey who really knows right?!)

 

[opaltiger]

Please stop misusing agnostic, guys. ;; It doesn't mean "unsure"!

Anyway. I was brought up in a family where religion was never mentioned. My parents were both atheists, and I'm fairly sure most of my grandparents were too. But this was never an issue. I don't recall ever having a conversation with my parents about religion when I was young. The concept of religion just... didn't matter. It was some silly faraway thing.

 

[Eloi]

Yes, but the church is supposed to not be doing many incredibly fucked up things.

Well, I don't believe any group should be hated, so I don't hate the Catholic church, I just wish they weren't infringing on the happiness of others with the hate filled rhetoric.

Funny, my uncle said the same thing to me last week; basically that psychic powers point to evidence of God.

Not necessarily. If the psychic in question is like "Nope, no God, but there is spirits" than that wouldn't point to evidence of God. However, the psychics I know do sense the presence of a God, as communication with spirits indicate they answer to a higher power whom of which we look up to as God. *beat* Seriously, I am not an insane person, and I don't use my family as "hard" evidence, its just my personal reason for believing.
The nature of the psychic things I've witnessed: Foretelling, in detail, events that happen very soon after the prediction in the exact way as described in a consistent manner (usually by dream. My boyfriend often wakes me up and tells me his dreams, so I hear a great deal of them, and then I watch the news to cross-reference. I'd say 88% precise accuracy in stuff going on that day, 2% of the rest happens later, 10% is not local but elsewhere.) Being able to know information about people and things they aren't familiar with, though it could be deductive reasoning, they say they don't have a conscious line of thought to follow to the conclusion, so I don't think that is *very* likely. I've witnessed (and "used") dowsing rods, to hold conversations (observable ones, which I enjoy a great deal more than being told about conversations), and finally, either my mother and boyfriend are animal psychologists (extremely unlikely for my boyfriend, who hasn't been around animals all that much until my dog), or somehow know what they are thinking. Coincidences or faking it? If I weren't with these people 24/7 I'd give a weak "maybe".

I've no idea what exactly you have seen, but it doesn't make much sense to me that God would uh, tell people who is calling them on the phone before they pick it up or whatever... (a popular example, one my uncle used as well)

I don't really understand what you mean?

Some people will say it's all coincidence, which is likely I guess, but even if it isn't, what does it necessarily have to do with God anyway? (:

If the spirits discuss a higher authority they answer to, at length, and in a consistent manner (I write these things down to make sure they are consistent, my sources do not, and I know how hard consistent world-building is), than that says something about God.

(If that's not what you meant by "higher power" then my apologies!)

Indeed what I meant, no apologies needed.

 

[Furiianda]

The following post may not necessarily contain my opinion in 100% seriousness k

Not necessarily. If the psychic in question is like "Nope, no God, but there is spirits" than that wouldn't point to evidence of God. However, the psychics I know do sense the presence of a God, as communication with spirits indicate they answer to a higher power whom of which we look up to as God. *beat* Seriously, I am not an insane person, and I don't use my family as "hard" evidence, its just my personal reason for believing.

The whole thing sounds a bit outlandish to me! And it's often hard to take people at their word, though of course you probably have a lot of trust in your relatives/significant other. I respect that you consider others' opinions on the matter and only state it as your personal truth though. {:

The nature of the psychic things I've witnessed: Foretelling, in detail, events that happen very soon after the prediction in the exact way as described in a consistent manner (usually by dream. My boyfriend often wakes me up and tells me his dreams, so I hear a great deal of them, and then I watch the news to cross-reference. I'd say 88% precise accuracy in stuff going on that day, 2% of the rest happens later, 10% is not local but elsewhere.) Being able to know information about people and things they aren't familiar with, though it could be deductive reasoning, they say they don't have a conscious line of thought to follow to the conclusion, so I don't think that is *very* likely. I've witnessed (and "used") dowsing rods, to hold conversations (observable ones, which I enjoy a great deal more than being told about conversations), and finally, either my mother and boyfriend are animal psychologists (extremely unlikely for my boyfriend, who hasn't been around animals all that much until my dog), or somehow know what they are thinking. Coincidences or faking it? If I weren't with these people 24/7 I'd give a weak "maybe".

Foretelling? I wouldn't doubt it, because sometimes I think I do it, but usually I put it down to deja vu (of course it's different in your case!).
The next subject just confused me and I'm not sure about animal psychology... at least, without an example, it doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

I don't really understand what you mean?

Some random example probably first used on a TV show at some point, as an example of commonplace psychic power or somesuch; if someone hears their phone ring, thinks to themself "Oh, that must be [name] ringing me" and picks up the phone and finds out they have guessed correctly, apparently they're using their superspecial psychic powers.

If the spirits discuss a higher authority they answer to, at length, and in a consistent manner (I write these things down to make sure they are consistent, my sources do not, and I know how hard consistent world-building is), than that says something about God.

Yes, I suppose so. Or at least some kind of... spirit heirarchy... uh.

 

[Eloi]

Re: The following post may not necessarily contain my opinion in 100% seriousness k

The whole thing sounds a bit outlandish to me! And it's often hard to take people at their word, though of course you probably have a lot of trust in your relatives/significant other. I respect that you consider others' opinions on the matter and only state it as your personal truth though. {:

Its not my personal truth, its my personal first hand evidence of objective truth, there is a difference, though at risk of being pedantic, I won't detail.

Foretelling? I wouldn't doubt it, because sometimes I think I do it, but usually I put it down to deja vu (of course it's different in your case!).
The next subject just confused me and I'm not sure about animal psychology... at least, without an example, it doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

*sleeping*
*boyfriend bolts awake, which wakes me up, he turns to me* Your dog has to go outside!
*Rushes to find my dog about to urinate on the carpet, before ushering them outside.*

Some random example probably first used on a TV show at some point, as an example of commonplace psychic power or somesuch; if someone hears their phone ring, thinks to themself "Oh, that must be [name] ringing me" and picks up the phone and finds out they have guessed correctly, apparently they're using their superspecial psychic powers.

We have Caller ID displayed on our television set.

Yes, I suppose so. Or at least some kind of... spirit heirarchy... uh.

The important part is that there is something after death, at least for me.

 

[ultraviolet]

my family is pretty much atheist, aside from I think a few of my older great-aunts/grandparents and even then they don't really care that much about what we believe in so. I don't recall ever explicitly believing in God, but I do remember asking God to make some sort of sign in case he did exist, and nothing happened.
I think I kind of really became an atheist when our religious studies teacher couldn't answer questions like "if the bible is true where does evolution come in" and "where is hell" which was a shame because she was a really nice person, in a class full of non-believing twelve-year-olds.

I don't know. I think religion is a bit of a waste of time, personally - I'd rather think about things that are much more relevant.

 

[Tailsy]

OH HANG ON I HAVE A PICTURE DESCRIBING MY REACTION TOO

 

[hopeandjoy]

I was raised Catholic, though I have no idea what my Dad is. I've always been a bit of a septic and thought that somethings were silly, so when I started using the internet I got convinced. Didn't really come to terms with it until I was twelve.

Mom's convinced that it's because of the crazies that surround me, but she used to be an atheist and really should know better than that.

My mom and sister, the last remaining Catholics of my family, are also extremely liberal. Like, to the point that the only crazy thing I've heard from them is that bisexuals do not exist. She's even pro-choice, albeit politically. She's pro-life in her personal life to the point she wouldn't let me get an abortion if something really bad came up (my sister wouldn't need to be talked out of it, though. She wouldn't anyway). Not that I think she's crazy for it; she's only talking about herself and I do live under her roof, by her rules and am her legal responsibility. She actually shocked everyone, including Dad, when she said that, though. That's how staunchly liberal she is. Though it's not really brought up, it seems she even supports transsexual rights. And she also wishes that the abstinence-only sex ed would change to abstinence-preferred and would teach about, you know, sex and birth control. She also disapproves of the Church's views on birth control, homosexuality, how they are handling the child abuse scandals, and such other things.

She also got reconverted because of a documentary on physics she watched and wants me to follow my dream of becoming a paleoanthropologist (the study of human evolution. I think. I keep hearing so many different names.)

And that's really why I don't get all the Catholic hate. Maybe I just grew up in too liberal of a family and too liberal of a parish with too liberal of a priest, idk.

 

[Butterfree]

Eh. Most religious doctrine is pretty twisted, honestly; if the religious followed the doctrine they profess belief in in one and all, the world would be a pretty screwed-up place. Ultimately, most people say they're Catholic or whatever but actually just mean that their parents called themselves Catholic and they didn't explicitly decide to turn against them. Meanwhile, what these people actually believe is generally quite innocent, just involving God creating us in some loose sense, Jesus being born and being the Messiah and then there's some guy called the Pope.

The thing is most people are good people, and they're usually mostly convinced their religion tells them to be good, whether that claim actually stands up to scrutiny or not. Most people don't scrutinize it; they just believe what they want to believe.

In any case, I was raised neutrally, without my parents ever actually discussing religion. But my grandmother did a bit, and there were things like a Sunday school kids' program on TV and biannual church trips for school that gave me the impression everyone was Christian. I immediately denounced it all as ridiculous and was convinced I was the only person ever to not believe in God. Then I proceeded to completely miss the point by making up my own religion revolving around God actually being the bad guy and the real good guy being the Cloud King (a king I saw in the clouds in a dream when I was three or so). And I was his special agent, and people with dogs were also special agents, and a whole elaborate system I made up that was obviously superior to this silly Christianity everyone else believed in.

At some point after I started thinking about it and heard the words 'agnostic' and 'atheist' for the first time, I called myself "agnostic leaning towards atheist" for a while, before a forum post made me realize that allowing for the remote possibility of God existing but not treating it as worth bothering with was really just atheism. So I switched over to that. Subsequently I also learned more about evolution and so on, which only strengthened it.

It wasn't until after I was comfortably calling myself an atheist that I found out my dad has been an atheist all along too. My mom is a weird pseudo-spiritual something.

 

[benwayshouse]

i was born into a pretty religious family. my mom is a southern baptist - bible belt, you know - and my dad is catholic. we went to church when i was younger and i even went to catholic school.

i moved away from that place when i was 12, and over the course of my middle school years i started to doubt religion that was put on me. my mom and brother were keen on spreading hate of other people. the idea that religion could make people so impersonal and hateful left a bad taste in my mouth. by the time i was 14, i decided i was agnostic at least. then, it was more atheist because i didn't know what agnostic meant - back then i thought it was for atheists not ready to be committed.

since then, my beliefs have persevered, though i accept that religion can be a good thing. i'm more agnostic in the true sense of the word now. not sure, not opposed, but not really interested in the long run. i don't think about it on any given day.

 

[Autumn]

tcod.

no, really.

my mom had been raised catholic but she (and unfortunately none of her four siblings - their kids are homophobic and have tried to convert me to Catholicism before :() started questioning the existence of a God so she and my dad decided that they'd raise me and my sister with the idea that we can believe whatever the fuck we want. this was helped by the fact that they joined a church specifically for the purpose of "finding our own spiritual path". but as a child I heard more about God than atheism so I sort of ended up believing on God and Jesus in a very very basic level (I knew pretty much nothing about Christianity beyond that God created the earth and Jesus came down at some point and did some stuff that he was hung on a cross for and that was what Easter was about). then there was a debate thread on TCoD before the crash called "Atheism is bad" and I read through it and lots of atheist TCoDers were like "THERE IS NO MAGICAL SKYDADDY" and I think there were lots of scientific arguments and such and I realized that the atheists' opinions made more sense than Christianity so I've been a firm atheist since.

great story huh

 

[Time Psyduck]

I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness (some may remember my earlier posts in the debating hall, which would probably embarrass me if I went back and looked at them now) and mostly stuck with it because that was what I was 'supposed' to do. Then I moved out and stopped going to the religious meetings, and drifted away. At the same time, I was studying evolution in university, and once I'd gotten over the 'it's just an idea' thing I actually went where the evidence suggested.

However, I think I stopped believing in god before then. I'm not sure when, but for quite a long time I think I was going because it was something I'd been doing for as long as I could remember, and believing because I believed.

 

[Eloi]

I have just a quick question: how does evolution in anyway matter in the context of the discussion of the afterlife and a deity?

 

[Butterfree]

It matters for the many people whose main reason to believe in God is the teleological argument: "The world is complex and awesome; therefore it must have been created with a purpose by some higher power." Evolution shows that complexity can and will arise from utter simplicity, provided a few premises we already know to be true in the biological world.

If you believe in God for some completely different reason, then no, evolution is not relevant to it.

 

[Eloi]

It matters for the many people whose main reason to believe in God is the teleological argument: "The world is complex and awesome; therefore it must have been created with a purpose by some higher power." Evolution shows that complexity can and will arise from utter simplicity, provided a few premises we already know to be true in the biological world.

If you believe in God for some completely different reason, then no, evolution is not relevant to it.

Gotcha, thank you.

 

[Pwnemon]

That actually doesn't make butt of sense in that context, but it does in the argument "There are so many worlds, one must be developed."