Is it necessary for a trans* person to transition?

[Adriane]

Maybe you should have posted that part in response to a more relevant quote of Jolty's. It just looks like you responded to the wrong thing there. (to me at least) Eh, whatever then.

No I'm just tired of genitals being used as proof of a gender binary. If you two aren't going to acknowledge that all of the trans* people in this thread with real dysphoria exist, I'm just going to add you to my ignore list (I've already done so with Jolty, but I feel obligated to step in because he keeps making Hiikaru cry and it's not exactly helping my BPD any) and I imagine/encourage others will/to do the same.

Jolty's argument is the same misleading argument that we don't need welfare or social services because some people abuse them, ignoring that people actually depend on them. Yeah, so some people on tumblr think it's trendy to be trans*. Ignore them. Real trans* people exist, and so do our struggles.

Do you want some kind of extra-special-actually-really-trans! award for surgically altering your body? Are you going to tell someone who doesn't have access to hormones that they're not trans because they're not changing anything about their body to prove it?

Can we please stop pretending our body's features and appearance is everything?

 

[Byrus]

No I'm just tired of genitals being used as proof of a gender binary. If you two aren't going to acknowledge that all of the trans* people in this thread with real dysphoria exist, I'm just going to add you to my ignore list (I've already done so with Jolty, but I feel obligated to step in because he keeps making Hiikaru cry and it's not exactly helping my BPD any) and I imagine/encourage others to do the same.

Do you want some kind of extra-special-actually-really-trans! award for surgically altering your body? Are you going to tell someone who doesn't have access to hormones that they're not trans because they're not changing anything about their body to prove it?

Can we please stop pretending our body's features and appearance is everything?

If you're seriously going to add me to your ignore list because we have differing opinions, then feel free. I don't know you well or interact with you anyway, so no loss.

And nowhere in the thread have I implied I don't believe people like you exist. I have no idea why people interpreted my posts so harshly.

I don't think your body's features and appearances are everything. Where the hell are you pulling this from?

Jolty's argument is the same misleading argument that we don't need welfare or social services because some people abuse them, ignoring that people actuallydepend on them. Yeah, so some people on tumblr think it's trendy to be trans*. Ignore them. Real trans* people exist, and so do our struggles.

This is complete bullshit. Where on earth has Jolty implied that the services should be taken away purely because some people abuse them? Why would he want that? It hardly benefits him.

To clarify my position: I believe that gate-keeping is a good thing and intensely examining someone's reasons for transitioning with therapy should not be taken as an attack.

 

[Adriane]

If you're seriously going to add me to your ignore list because we have differing opinions, then feel free. I don't know you well or interact with you anyway, so no loss.

I don't give a shit about whether you lose anything. I do give a shit about your and Jolty's attitudes towards trans* people who aren't transsexual on this forum.

And nowhere in the thread have I implied I don't believe people like you exist. I have no idea why people interpreted my posts so harshly.

I'm really having problems understanding what you mean here. The "medical community" has a lot more experience than the average trans person on the net, so I think it's unfair to act as though their "whims" are unreasonable. Are you saying there shouldn't be gate-keeping or something?

Saying you are trans doesn't automatically mean that you are. I completely support the talk-therapy approach before any physical steps are taken, to make sure the person is completely aware of how serious transitioning is.

[...] the reality is that some people are pressured into identifying as trans because being a masculine woman or a feminine man is looked down on in society. You should not consider yourself trans just because you defy gender norms, this is a bad mindset and only fuels the assumption that trans folks transition because they like girly things or vice versa. You can be a masculine woman or a feminine man and that should be completely unrelated to being trans issues.

I'm not saying you're literally saying people that do not adhere to a gender binary don't exist, but your posts are borderlining erasure (and I apologise for the hyperbole).

This is complete bullshit. Where on earth has Jolty implied that the services should be taken away purely because some people abuse them? Why would he want that? It hardly benefits him.

The problem is that you've both highlighted biology and psychology which is in effect only necessarily relevant to transsexuals, in which we all understand you both are. It's a red herring to use biology as an argument against the gender spectrum. I think you're not getting the metaphor.

 

[Adriane]

If you're seriously going to add me to your ignore list because we have differing opinions, then feel free. I don't know you well or interact with you anyway, so no loss.

I don't give a shit about whether you lose anything. I do give a shit about your and Jolty's attitudes towards trans* people who aren't transsexual on this forum. Yours and Jolty's posts both have been triggering (albeit his moreso) to numerous people (who have told me).

And nowhere in the thread have I implied I don't believe people like you exist. I have no idea why people interpreted my posts so harshly.

I'm really having problems understanding what you mean here. The "medical community" has a lot more experience than the average trans person on the net, so I think it's unfair to act as though their "whims" are unreasonable. Are you saying there shouldn't be gate-keeping or something?

Saying you are trans doesn't automatically mean that you are. I completely support the talk-therapy approach before any physical steps are taken, to make sure the person is completely aware of how serious transitioning is.

[...] the reality is that some people are pressured into identifying as trans because being a masculine woman or a feminine man is looked down on in society. You should not consider yourself trans just because you defy gender norms, this is a bad mindset and only fuels the assumption that trans folks transition because they like girly things or vice versa. You can be a masculine woman or a feminine man and that should be completely unrelated to being trans issues.

I'm not saying you're literally saying people that do not adhere to a gender binary don't exist, but your posts are borderlining erasure (and I apologise for the hyperbole).

This is complete bullshit. Where on earth has Jolty implied that the services should be taken away purely because some people abuse them? Why would he want that? It hardly benefits him.

The problem is that you've both highlighted biology and/or psychology which is in effect only necessarily relevant to transsexuals, in which we all understand you both are. It's a red herring to use biology as an argument against the gender spectrum. I think you're not getting the metaphor.

EDIT: also sorry for occasional incoherency I am really fighting possible splitting here

 

[Byrus]

I don't give a shit about whether you lose anything. I do give a shit about your and Jolty's attitudes towards trans* people who aren't transsexual on this forum. Yours and Jolty's posts both have been triggering (albeit his moreso) to numerous people (who have told me).

What post is setting people off?

I'm not saying you're literally saying people that do not adhere to a gender binary don't exist, but your posts are borderlining erasure (and I apologise for the hyperbole).

What is wrong with those posts? I'm literally saying that being a masculine woman or feminine man doesn't mean that you're trans. Why is this bad? Too many people think that trans people transition because they defy gender norms, which sucks.

The problem is that you've both highlighted biology which is in effect only necessarily relevant to transsexuals, in which we all understand you both are. It's a red herring to use biology as an argument against the gender spectrum. I think you're not getting the metaphor.

I did not highlight biology. I only quoted that because I didn't understand why you were talking about gender when the post referred to physical sex. I thought you replied to the wrong thing or were equating genitals with gender rather than sex.

 

[Minish]

Hey uh, would you mind not making things even harder for everyone? Chalumeau is literally telling you that e's finding it pretty hard to cope with this goddamn thread right now so if you still don't get it maybe stop pushing it. Your reaction to "you're making people really unhappy because of the things you are saying" should not be "prove it!!!!!!!!" it should be to back off for now and think about it yourself.

 

[sovram]

What is wrong with those posts? I'm literally saying that being a masculine woman or feminine man doesn't mean that you're trans. Why is this bad? Too many people think that trans people transition because they defy gender norms, which sucks.

stop me if I'm wrong but your posts seem to imply that trans* people have some agenda of falsely increasing their ranks or something. not that I think that you believe something sinister like that is happening. but I think that people mistakenly pressuring people to identifying as trans*, if that does happen on such a scale as has been suggested, is obviously not cool, but the way that this is being handled seems to marginalize trans* people (that are not transsexuals) which is also uncool. obviously this impression, that trans people transition because they defy gender norms, needs to be changed, but that isn't a problem with trans* people. I think people are just getting confused because this subject is pretty upsetting

 

[Adriane]

I did not highlight biology. I only quoted that because I didn't understand why you were talking about gender when the post referred to physical sex. I thought you replied to the wrong thing or were equating genitals with gender rather than sex.

I immediately edited in "and/or psychology" and apparently that didn't save, sorry. All of your posts that I've quoted are problematic for various reasons. For many trans* people, it is not a medical issue at all. For others, it is physical but not psychological. There is no one-size fit all, so we should not insinuate that all trans* people must go through gender therapy to achieve whatever transitioning goals they may have. We should give the people who actively identify as trans the benefit of the doubt, and not just be suspicious of them trying to be hip or trendy. Also "some people" is really vague — here, you would never be "pressured" by society into being trans for any reason, especially masculine women.

 

[Byrus]

Hey uh, would you mind not making things even harder for everyone? Chalumeau is literally telling you that e's finding it pretty hard to cope with this goddamn thread right now so if you still don't get it maybe stop pushing it. Your reaction to "you're making people really unhappy because of the things you are saying" should not be "prove it!!!!!!!!" it should be to back off for now and think about it yourself.

I'm asking because this is where you supposed to debate and generate discussion?

And again, my posts are only saying that being trans shouldn't be related to your adherence to gender roles, which I figured was a common train of thought here because gender roles are restrictive nonsense.

I immediately edited in "and/or psychology" and apparently that didn't save, sorry. All of your posts that I've quoted are problematic for various reasons. For many trans* people, it is not a medical issue at all. For others, it is physical but not psychological. There is no one-size fit all, so we should not insinuate that all trans* people must go through gender therapy to achieve whatever transitioning goals they may have. We should give the people who actively identify as trans the benefit of the doubt, and not just be suspicious of them trying to be hip or trendy. Also "some people" is really vague — here, you would never be "pressured" by society into being trans for any reason, especially masculine women.

It's a medical condition for me and I fucking hate it. I'd give anything to be one of the cis people viewing this thread and watching the trans people debate from a distance. If people want to refer to it as an identity, that's fine, but that's not my view of it.

"Some people" referring to the trans community. Saying a woman who dresses "manly" is trans gives the impression that we're enforcing the gender roles rather than breaking it. That's my problem. People are talking about Angelina Jolie's daughter being ftm now for example, just because she likes "boy's things".

 

[Minish]

Except that we're all people here talking about a really sensitive personal topic and we're also trying to not all break down!! in the end it's kind of down to you to look back on what people have said and try to work out yourself why you're upsetting everyone and why we don't agree! rather than prodding and prodding those who have told you they are now uncomfortable!

just stop we are telling you that we are upset have some responsibility and try to figure out why! when your brain says "yeah but that's not what I'm saying" FORGET IT and think a bit more. you should be backing the fuck down when people say you're being hurtful EVEN IF YOU DON'T AGREE.

This doesn't mean there can be no debate, no discussion, it means that there is *more* to what we're talking about than person a's point and person b's point. That's been a huge mistake with previous gender threads.

"Some people" referring to the trans community. Saying a woman who dresses "manly" is trans gives the impression that we're enforcing the gender roles rather than breaking it. That's my problem. People are talking about Angelina Jolie's daughter being ftm now for example, just because she likes "boy's things".

Who the hell is doing this. Since lots and lots and lots of ftm kids first start expressing things this way, uhhhhhh people are perfectly justified in talking about that. but, like! I'd be more interested in actually taking a look at this myself.

[so you know what, I did!

Mom-of-six Angelina Jolie admits that she is fascinated by her 4-year-old daughter Shiloh, who she recently revealed “wants to be a boy.”

Okay, that's a whole lot more information than you gave and pretty interesting. Lots of the dialogue about it that I am finding is wondering how her kid being ftm would affect transpeople. That'd be pretty big! It's really intriguing to think about how big media examples would affect how the average transperson is viewed. So seriously, are you the Daily Mail? You can't keep making vague anecdotes like "the genderqueer liars stealing all my opportunities" or "those people ~on tumblr~" and expect us to keep interpreting the situation the same way you do, guys!

That someone sued your gender clinic or whatever, yeah, fine, that's interesting and valuable. But this weird way of referencing you have is really misleading for pretty much anyone who's going to be reading this thread and interpreting these single examples you're giving as being massive widespread phenomenons.]

 

[Byrus]

Who the hell is doing this. Since lots and lots and lots of ftm kids first start expressing things this way, uhhhhhh people are perfectly justified in talking about that. but, like! I'd be more interested in actually taking a look at this myself.

so you know what, I did!

Okay, that's a whole lot more information than you gave and pretty interesting. Lots of the dialogue about it that I am finding is wondering how her kid being ftm would affect transpeople. That'd be pretty big! It's really intriguing to think about how big media examples would affect how the average transperson is viewed. So seriously, are you the Daily Mail? You can't keep making vague anecdotes like "the genderqueer liars stealing all my opportunities" or "those people ~on tumblr~" and expect us to keep interpreting the situation the same way you do, guys!

That someone sued your gender clinic or whatever, yeah, fine, that's interesting and valuable. But this weird way of referencing you have is really misleading for pretty much anyone who's going to be reading this thread and interpreting these single examples you're giving as being massive widespread phenomenons.]

OK look, I'm not talking about genderqueers or non-binaries anywhere in my posts. There's a reason I'm saying trans and not trans*. I don't interact with the genderqueer community. What they do isn't any concern of mine.

It's making me uncomfortable because people are basing her transness purely on the fact that she doesn't adhere to gender roles. I'm sick of people thinking folks like me transition because I liked dinosaurs as a kid. I don't think people's clothing preferences should be scrutinized or over-analyzed or whatever. The focus on presentation just gives the impression that transsexuals are enforcing the gender binary.

 

[Adriane]

It's a medical condition for me and I fucking hate it. I'd give anything to be one of the cis people viewing this thread and watching the trans people debate from a distance. If people want to refer to it as an identity, that's fine, but that's not my view of it.

Okay, it is for you. ... where did I say it couldn't be? But just because it is for you doesn't mean it has to be for everyone. That's what I'm saying. You're juxtaposing your feelings and experiences as a transsexual on everyone else who isn't. For some people gender identity is extremely important. For others, it is completely unimportant. There is such a broad spectrum, a gender binary derived solely from sex characteristics is inadequate. The thread asks "Is it necessary for a trans* person to transition [to be considered trans*]?" and the answer is no. What transition is from person to person varies. The necessity of transition from person to person varies. For you, that involved surgery. And that's okay. Your body was/(is?) a source of dysphoria, and that's fine. But the answer to the thread's question is still no.

Also while I don't necessarily wish I was cis anymore, I do still wish that I didn't have to go through the struggles that come with being trans, especially a transperson who does not adhere to a binary. People in American society have become somewhat exposed and acquainted to (not necessarily accepting of) MtF and FtM transsexuals, but transgender people and gender as a spectrum are still foreign concepts.

Relatedly, and a late response to Jolty claiming transgender and transsexual are the same, my somewhat older (at least a few years) sociology of gender text (which is often problematic and a lot of binarist tripe) still defines transgender and transsexual separately. This is true in general, mainstream sociology.

It's making me uncomfortable because people are basing her transness purely on the fact that she doesn't adhere to gender roles. I'm sick of people thinking folks like me transition because I liked dinosaurs as a kid. I don't think people's clothing preferences should be scrutinized or over-analyzed or whatever. The focus on presentation just gives the impression that transsexuals are enforcing the gender binary.

The paradox here is that there are cis- and trans* people alike adhering to and identifying with the binary. I have upset trans* people before for calling for the eradication of gender as an institution, which is understandable -- gender, be it binary or not, can be an important aspect of a person's identity, and it's not my (or anyone else's) responsibility to tell them otherwise. The easiest solution we have is to accept the personal wishes of everyone we meet. If a person wearing a bright pink blouse and has hair down to their waist asks you to use "he" or say they are a boy, acknowledge that you understand, use the right pronouns, and move on. A girl who enjoys gardening is not gender policing like a girl telling a boy that he shouldn't like gardening because he's a boy. We all have different ideas about gender. But just like with most things, we must be mindful of others' ideas. I know that this isn't an exact response to what you're feeling uncomfortable about, but I think it's related enough. That said, the media is pretty awful in general. I mean, look at all the is-so-and-so-gay rumours that are usually baseless or based on stereotype (please note this is not an attempt to justify your concern as irrational, because I don't think it is).

 

[octobr]

"So what." yourself. Bringing up physical sex/the binary to make an argument about trans* people as a whole is a red herring. Also gender roles aren't assigned at birth -- gender is (and roles are learnt later on).

i also want to remind -- i just grabbed chalumeau's post here cause it was convenient -- i also want to remind you all that physical sex isn't a binary either

intersex people exist in tons of different ways and a lot of people who don't even realize it may exhibit signs of being intersex

chromosomes don't even exist as a binary because as we know more than just xx and xy are a thing in human genetics

suggesting and enforcing a binary in any manner of sex or gender talk is just harmful and wrong haha

let's not even get into the tons of cultures that don't see sex/gender as a binary one-is-opposite-of-the-other system

 

[opaltiger]

chromosomes don't even exist as a binary because as we know more than just xx and xy are a thing in human genetics

This is a bit misleading. Yes, there are lots of possible chromosome combinations, but virtually all of them are still either male or female. The binary isn't XX/XY, but whether or not you have a Y chromosome (or, more specifically, a specific gene on the Y chromosome). The concept of intersex doesn't exist at the chromosomal level.

The way this is expressed in someone's body, of course, is not necessarily that simple, which is why sex as most people think of it - physical sex characteristics and so on - isn't a binary. But chromosomal sex pretty much is.

 

[Cerberus87]

Care to explain how?

Ok, I was not going to bite it, but I couldn't resist.

First of all I'd like you to know I'm cis, male and straight. Now this might mean my opinion doesn't mean jack, but I'm actually very liberal and for LGBT rights. I'm also a law graduate so I happen to have a chance of changing things a bit if I'm ever in a position to do so.

I live in Brazil. This alone doesn't say much, but you need to know that Brazil, as a whole, is a Christian country, with prevalence of Catholics. People here are extremely conservative when it comes to gender issues. If you saw the comments from the average person in Brazilian news sites whenever there's news on the reality of trans* people, you'd be horrified with the people's prejudice and complete lack of knowledge on the subject.

The bulk of our educational system, before we reach university, are private schools. In these private schools, you either eat or are eaten. We don't have the luxury of LGBT groups at school, like you do in the USA. People tend to be really unfriendly towards what's different, and I can't imagine what it's like for a transsexual person to grow up here and be singled out for being different. Even homosexual people still suffer a lot, because, as a predominantly Catholic society, there's a great emphasis on gender roles and, to your parents, if you don't fit their plan, you're a failure. Trans* people suffer a lot and most mtf are relegated to prostitution because they can't find jobs where people will accept them. Changing your physical sex is already hard enough, although gladly the Brazilian health care has started to fund it, changing your documents is still a dream for many, despite a recent decision by a Brazilian court that allowed not only trans* people, but transvestites, to bear feminine documents (or masculine in the case of ftm). But then there's still the issue of society. Newer generations, who mostly live in urban areas and are in touch with the changes in the world, are much more tolerant, but trans* people still get a lot of flak, especially from male, straight, cis people, who look at LGBT people in a derisive way, make silly jokes (the "cutting off your penis" is the most common one), and so on.

That being said, I find people complaining about pronouns when the problem is much bigger than that. Seriously (and I'm in danger of offending some people here), when transsexual people struggle to simply have rights and to be accepted by society, complaining about pronouns sounds like something superfluous to me. Some people seem like they do it because it's "cool", it's a thing of our teen years, let's defy gender roles for the sake of it. And it does make the average people not take transsexuality as seriously as it should be. This is the point where I agree with Jolty, and not from this thread only. I kind of have problems with neutral pronouns since my language does not easily accept neutral pronouns (it could be considered a fault of Portuguese). I use them because I don't want to be rude, but I really think that there should be a standard everyone should agree upon, like in Sweden, where an official neutral pronoun was created. Because, if there are as many possible genders as people, like some believe, a language can't hold all these numerous and near infinite possibilities. BTW I don't think genders are infinite, for the sake of turning the very concept of "gender" meaningless, but that's a debate for another topic.

Regarding the subject of the thread, yes it's necessary to transition. At least in some degree. Transitioning doesn't mean only removing your penis and building a vagina if you're mtf. I'm not trans*, but if I were, I would at the very least not want to have to shave my face every three days, nor would I want to have a deep voice, and I would feel satisfaction in touching my chest and feeling my soft breasts. If you don't transition, you'll still be trapped in a body that hinders your gender identity and makes you feel bad because of the biological implications of having a male body (or female, in the case of ftm).

As for classification, I think transsexuality is the desire of being the opposite gender. If you identify yourself as neither gender, you're genderqueer but not transsexual (both are branches of "transgender"). If you're genderqueer then the concept of transition is almost meaningless since you can be whatever you like, you can be perfectly comfortable with your male body but wear ambiguous accessories.

 

[octobr]

This is a bit misleading. Yes, there are lots of possible chromosome combinations, but virtually all of them are still either male or female. The binary isn't XX/XY, but whether or not you have a Y chromosome (or, more specifically, a specific gene on the Y chromosome). The concept of intersex doesn't exist at the chromosomal level.

The way this is expressed in someone's body, of course, is not necessarily that simple, which is why sex as most people think of it - physical sex characteristics and so on - isn't a binary. But chromosomal sex pretty much is.

aha, apologies, biology sensei~ this is why we have you around, right? right...??

 

[Minish]

First of all I'd like you to know I'm cis, male and straight. Now this might mean my opinion doesn't mean jack ...

It means only that you can't say things like "you'll still be trapped in a body that hinders your gender identity and makes you feel bad" and "it's necessary to transition" quite so authoritatively.

That being said, I find people complaining about pronouns when the problem is much bigger than that. Seriously (and I'm in danger of offending some people here), when transsexual people struggle to simply have rights and to be accepted by society, complaining about pronouns sounds like something superfluous to me.

But the thing is, you can both campaign for improved trans* rights/acceptance (which are apparently separate from pronouns? okay) and care about pronouns. This is a thing that is possible.

Do you think it's okay to, like, wantonly litter just because you think global warming is a bigger issue?? Should we not bother about any small things at all just because they're small? Of course, they're only small to you because they literally aren't about you so you don't know! But whatever, I'm sure people that get dangerously triggered by the wrong pronouns can just deal with it if you say it's not a big problem.

What do you think about binary trans people who feel upset when people don't use their pronouns? Unlike reformations of healthcare and other structural systems, using the right pronoun literally requires barely any effort on your part. Probably a lot less effort than learning how to play a sport, which also isn't campaigning for rights so I guess that's irresponsible too?

Some people seem like they do it because it's "cool", it's a thing of our teen years, let's defy gender roles for the sake of it. And it does make the average people not take transsexuality as seriously as it should be.

Who? You need to show that this is an actual widespread thing, because few of us believe this. I'm sure a few examples exist somewhere on tumblr, who I doubt are particularly encouraged.

I've never encountered anyone (except people like Jolty, who are usually trans themselves) who take trans people less seriously because being trans is apparently trendy right now. Trans isn't trendy. I still have to speak up to transphobia, I still am purposely triggered on a regular basis, I still have to convince people that alternative pronouns are a thing that could maybe exist.

Maybe there are people on tumblr who see trans as being trendy and cool! (Which is pretty weird since there's lots of transphobic abuse on there??) But they're kind of a reeeeally small part of the world and a tiny singular oasis in a desert of 'being trans in any way is gross and foul and wrong'.

...but I really think that there should be a standard everyone should agree upon, like in Sweden, where an official neutral pronoun was created.

Yeah, that'd be pretty fucking great. Unfortunately, my own government doesn't really agree with me.

If you don't transition, you'll still be trapped in a body that hinders your gender identity and makes you feel bad because of the biological implications of having a male body (or female, in the case of ftm).

It hinders your gender identity only if people like you continue exclusively associating bodies with genders. That's shitty and unhelpful, but it's definitely not a thing that many trans people can help feeling, because everyone and everything has been pushing that on them from day one of their life. If you care about trans people, if you're really so very liberal and for LGBT rights, you would not push that on us even further.

 

[Jolty]

Maybe there are people on tumblr who see trans as being trendy and cool! (Which is pretty weird since there's lots of transphobic abuse on there??) But they're kind of a reeeeally small part of the world and a tiny singular oasis in a desert of 'being trans in any way is gross and foul and wrong'.

i refuse to believe that you have not seen them because they are ALL OVER tumblr. to the point where i automatically assume someone is trans (or thinks they are) if they say they're male. and i'm usually right too.
they're spreading into real life too, i know there's one in my hometown. there's apparently tonnes in the hometown of a guy i know. he knew several girls who became "ftm" literally overnight.

seriously, just go in the ftm or genderqueer tags. it's horrifying. also there's sometimes tits and vaginas in there which is you know so great and really makes people believe they are in fact trans.

Yeah, that'd be pretty fucking great. Unfortunately, my own government doesn't really agree with me.

isn't your title legally "Mx"?


i said i was gonna reply to more of these ugh maybe i will later i don't know it's very frustrating.

 

[Music Dragon]

I really think that there should be a standard everyone should agree upon, like in Sweden, where an official neutral pronoun was created.

It's not "official" in any sense (though what does it mean for a word to be official?) - you won't find it in the Academy's dictionary and the government doesn't use it, if that's what you mean - and it certainly wasn't invented by the government. It's also far from a standard agreed-upon by everyone; most people find it ridiculous. (Still doing better than much of the rest of the world, though.)

I'm not trans*, but if I were [...] I would feel satisfaction in touching my chest and feeling my soft breasts.

I don't actually have anything more to say, I just wanted to highlight this.

 

[Minish]

Okay, there being one in your hometown, 'apparently' some in some guy's town, and some people on tumblr. Maybe I feel like I've never noticed them because uhhh I usually don't get suspicious when someone identifies a certain way. ~_~

'becoming ftm overnight' maybe they'd never see much about trans people before that night and suddenly realised something?? maybe they'd just never shared their feelings with that one dude before? maybe I don't feel like I have the whole of that story?

seriously, just go in the ftm or genderqueer tags. it's horrifying. also there's sometimes tits and vaginas in there which is you know so great and really makes people believe they are in fact trans.

by people you mean 'you', not me, so what are you trying to prove at this point
you know I disagree!

isn't your title legally "Mx"?

titles aren't legal :P you can literally use whichever at any time. I have a legal piece of paper that says my title is Mx, so I could force the issue, but it's just hardly recognised by anyone. It's mostly taken as a "oh, they just want their identity to be ambiguous" than anything else. the government still doesn't accept that my gender identity is valid!

i said i was gonna reply to more of these ugh maybe i will later i don't know it's very frustrating.

I think we're pretty much all feeling this. idk maybe we should all just drop this thread.