Life after Death?

[Zhorken]

I assume that being dead will be exactly like not (yet) having been born.

 

[xkze]

There's not really an explanation, due to what I said above. If you die and stop existing, then everyone would forget about you because you don't exist in your minds either. However, Cryptica and I dream of dead people all the time (especially her :'<). So there has to be some existence somewhere. As in, a different dimension?

Wait, what? Are you proposing that anything that can be thought about must exist? Like, are you seriously proposing that idea?

I'm thinking about George Washington fighting Communists from a helicopter. That doesn't mean that I am accessing with my mind some actual far-off dimension in which George Washington is alive and well and shooting an AK-47 out of an Apache. You seem to lack a fundamental knowledge of what thought is.

When people say things "don't exist," they do. There's no way a particular thing, whether it's an idea or a [previously] living organism, cannot exist because it is in your mind. So countless alternate dimensions must be true; after all, there can't just be this universe, I don't think.

...I'm sorry, no. Just because you imagine something does not make it come into existence. At all, in any way. Ever. There are no words for how ridiculous that theory sounds.

This relates to the topic because life after death does exist, but who knows where you go after you die? It could be anything from being doomed to dream-walk and nothing else (since someone has to know about you o_O) to being reincarnated as something else that was like you in your previous life. There's really endless possibilities; possibilities that are unlimited, possibilities that compare to the numerous ideas of humans themselves.

Or maybe there just is no life. Is it a simulation? A dream that we wake from into a completely different realm, or life? Is death a fall into an endless dream that keeps our pleasures in life close?

Okay, yeah, I'm sorry, I don't know what to say to this. Other than that you really, really need to think these things out more.

 

[Zuu]

Life after death... is mysterious. Mainly because there is absolutely no way to know about it.

... Obviously.

There's not really an explanation, due to what I said above. If you die and stop existing, then everyone would forget about you because you don't exist in your minds either. However, Cryptica and I dream of dead people all the time (especially her :'<). So there has to be some existence somewhere. As in, a different dimension?

Okay, first of all, you obviously don't understand the mechanics behind ... well, existence, first of all, dreams, or "dimensions". In fact I hate it when people talk about "alternate dimensions~~" because ... it's actually alternate universes. Dimensions deal with space and time, not with whatever the hell you're trying to talk about.

tl;dr: <Eevee> that's retarded
<Eevee> there is your reply
<Eevee> "that's retarded"

And even if you did die, as what I said first, and dream walking isn't an option, how would you contact the mortals that still exist? That is my main thought on why we don't know about this stuff.

... You don't ... what is ... I don't even ...

When people say things "don't exist," they do. There's no way a particular thing, whether it's an idea or a [previously] living organism, cannot exist because it is in your mind. So countless alternate dimensions must be true; after all, there can't just be this universe, I don't think.

Go fucking wiki existence or something. I know what you're trying to get across and that's noble but seriously it is annoying that people think like this.

However, I do agree that there are probably countless alternate universes. And it's due to CHOICE, not due to whatever you're talking about.

This relates to the topic because life after death does exist, but who knows where you go after you die? It could be anything from being doomed to dream-walk and nothing else (since someone has to know about you o_O) to being reincarnated as something else that was like you in your previous life. There's really endless possibilities; possibilities that are unlimited, possibilities that compare to the numerous ideas of humans themselves.

First of all, what are you talking about, and two, it is absolutely impossible to know that life after death exists for a fact.

Or maybe there just is no life. Is it a simulation? A dream that we wake from into a completely different realm, or life? Is death a fall into an endless dream that keeps our pleasures in life close?

Despite trying too hard to sound deep (and the last sentence), these are generally things that I have thought of before.

Maybe you should stay out of the Debating Hall. :|

 

[Darksong]

...That just made me feel quite stupid compared to many other people here. O_O That's probably why so few people like me, just because I say what I think and they think that what I say is weird and thus I am weird...

In a simpler way to say it, part of that was what ... had said exactly ><'

 

[Aura Cobalt]

No way I'm missing out on a discussion like this.

<christiantheology>

once your brain stops letting you be aware of anything, that is it. you will not "pass on" to anywhere, you do not "go to a better place", you will cease to be alive.

it is a hard thing to come to terms with, and that's why religions exist.

Hard to come to terms with, yes, but there happens to be a minority group of Christians, which I belong to, who believe this is the definition of hell, for one to truly perish as their life is scuffed out. Here you underestimate the diversity of different theologies within religions.

With that logic everyone goes to heaven because everyone's life is planned out in advance and it's not their fault they did anything. Which I don't oppose, but.
Or you could go the 'only christians/catholics go to heaven lol' route which would suck because Hitler would be in heaven and all the Jews burning in hell forever.

Let me make a very clear point of this: not everyone who says that they're a Christian truly is and therefore has what it takes to pass judgement.

I know you guys [Christians] aren't big on logic

Sadly this is the general truth about the average Christian. It is a quality, but it is also a steriotype, which I personally find insulting.

Actually, Xikaze, if I heard my Theology teachers correctly, the Bible isn't supposed to be taken as all nonfiction; some of it is most likely symbolism. Like the creation story.

She's right. Many Christians argue over whether Genesis One is figurative or literal, but I definitely think it is figurative. And remember, the original audience wasn't all caught up in the scientific aspect of it; to them it made no difference how long it took the Earth to be created, the point was that God did it.

Are you talking about the same Bible I'm talking about? What happened to the Creation story? Adam and Eve and all that?

If you're really interested, go here. It's not perfect but it has a lot of good points about how the creation of the world could have easily taken much more than seven days, without contradicting the original Hebrew text.

You see, the Bible, in no way, denies this. Since evolution is just change in a species over time, there is no reason we shouldn't have changed.

The Bible just says that God created the original species. There is, actually, no denying things have changed since then. Anyone who tries to deny this, well, is ignorant, no way around it.

I only think that the Christians don't like to believe that we all evolved from a speck in the oceon.

I might also add that there is a particular camp within Christianity that has no problem with the idea that "we all evolved from a speck in the ocean." Of course, many Christians have hard feelings against Christians in this group, but I personally have no problem with it.

No, I am pretty sure the guys that wrote the bible meant it to be taken seriously. And so did the Christian church until recently when realized that believing every word of it made them sound pretty crazy. So they've toned it down a little, and you see churches do the whole "well it's actually just lots and lots of symbolic things that kind of mimic things that actually happened."

Lets get this straight: there are not "lots and lots of symbolic things" in the Bible. Every Christian should believe that every story in the Bible is completely true. But there are definitely some things that were downright meant to be symbols from the beginning. You go read the book of Revelation (the very last book) and come back and tell me that it's supposed to be taken fully litterally.

</christiantheology>
<myideas type="mostlyspeculation">

At one point I kind of believed in reincarnation - and I still think that, if souls do indeed exist, that's a more logical explanation than having them all go to some specific place set aside for them for all eternity or what have you. I mean, what would be the physics behind that? It'd have to be an infinite amount of space, otherwise people are going to keep dying and it's going to keep getting fuller and fuller. It becomes even more of a problem if you assume that animals have souls too.

First of all, animals do not have souls; they are purely matterial and the only separates an beetle from a rock is complexity. Now, heaven would not just keep filling according to Christian theology because there are a finite number of people who will make it to heaven, and there will eventually come a day when Christians are raptured from the Earth and this world will end.

I think that if there were indeed an afterlife, it would probably not be human-centric *cough cough stupid religions cough*.

Why would it have to be? I've thought about this before, and it is kind of fun to think about. Anyway, you seem to think that it is very established what the afterlife, or heaven, will be like, when the Bible doesn't talk much about the afterlife at all. It has been promised to those who follow Christ; it will be good and whole, and we will be worshiping God forever there, but other than that, we know nothing.

</myideas>

 

[GameFreakerZero]

First of all, animals do not have souls; they are purely matterial and the only separates an beetle from a rock is complexity.

What?
What does that even mean!?
Are you saying that animals don't matter because they're entirely physical manifestations? Are you saying animals are like complex machines?

What about the fact humans are animals? What about the fact animals can be just as emotive as humans? I think you're drawing a bigger line between us and other animals than there actually is.

Now, heaven would not just keep filling according to Christian theology because there are a finite number of people who will make it to heaven, and there will eventually come a day when Christians are raptured from the Earth and this world will end.

So why do non-Christians exist?
And don't say "well they haven't embraced God" or something, I'm talking about different theologies from around the world before Christianity spread and before it even existed; what about them? Why did they exist? Why did God put humans who had no chance of believing in him on the Earth and then not let them into paradise?

It has been promised to those who follow Christ; it will be good and whole, and we will be worshiping God forever there, but other than that, we know nothing.

Wow God has some kind of inferiority complex doesn't he? You worship God for your entire life and you be a good Christian and then in paradise the only thing that's really promised is worshipping God for eternity.

 

[Tarvos]

As far as I remember: "Judge not, lest ye be judged yourself." NO human is worthy to judge as I recall, only God can.

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

Let me make a very clear point of this: not everyone who says that they're a Christian truly is and therefore has what it takes to pass judgement.

No sorry I'm pretty sure Hitler was Catholic. He talks about Jesus a couple times in Mein Kampf and one of the reasons for his hatred of Jews was that they killed him.
And yeah Jesus was Jewish but you know. He's Hitler, he doesn't make much sense.
Here's a picture of him shaking hands with a cardinal:

I also don't really understand, does that mean that only Christians can have a cool afterlife? Because you can bet that guys like Gandhi, the Dalai Lama or the Jewish holocaust victims are far more deserving of heaven than Jerry Falwell or Ratzinger ever will be.

 

[Ruby]

It doesn't scare me that there isn't an afterlife, because going on for eternity is the worst fate I can think of. My only qualm about one day being dead is that I want, as almost everyone does, not only to be remembered but to see myself being remembered, which of couse is impossible.

The problem with believing in God and Heaven without any evidence is not that it is illogical, just that it is inconsistent. In all other aspects of your life you presume that nothing exists until you have evidence for it. But as soon as God is mentioned, you presume that everything exists until you have evidence against it. One has to choose one of those principles and apply it to both God and unicorns.

 

[brandman]

Yeah except that you can replace the batteries in a robot and robots don't feel pain. By your logic I can go outside, get a cat and slice it into bits and get off scot-free.

Ah, no. Only kill what your going to eat. The robot comparison was a little off. Animals were made for your personal enjoyment and nutrition. God gave us control over the earth and everything. Now, we have people over us like the PETA saying that we have to capture flies and set them free. In Gods mind, I doubt he had any intentions of us going on rampages destroying stuff. Now, while we can (sorta, leaders), why would you want to? God would probably want us to keep it clean and nice. So in a way, its good to go green, but the fact of people going crazy and hippie-like and devoting life to the planet is wrong. After all, the earth will be eliminated, but what's to lose making the earth while were still here a better place for the next gen?

you are a jerk wtf

What? Stating animals have no souls? That's the truth and most of you think it will happen to yourselves. When I say this I don't mean there will never be animals in heaven, there will (most likely), but probably not your dog marley.

Oh. That's an easy one. Though my answer, I am sure, will in no way suffice you.

You see, the Bible, in no way, denies this. Since evolution is just change in a species over time, there is no reason we shouldn't have changed.

The Bible just says that God created the original species. There is, actually, no denying things have changed since then. Anyone who tries to deny this, well, is ignorant, no way around it.

I only think that the Christians don't like to believe that we all evolved from a speck in the oceon.

Did I just reenstane things over and over again? Meh. Anyway, I hope that cleared some things up.

We didn't evolve from a speck, technically, sculpted from a bunch of little clay specs. While animals, were created in a snap, we were sculpted from clay, to the last detail. We are special. It amazes me how you guys think that you evolved from something so lowly and small. Your special. Every one is.

 

[Music Dragon]

We didn't evolve from a speck, technically, sculpted from a bunch of little clay specs. While animals, were created in a snap, we were sculpted from clay, to the last detail. We are special. It amazes me how you guys think that you evolved from something so lowly and small. Your special. Every one is.

I don't think anyone here as any problems with their special, especially not because of the knowledge that we are the product of thousands of years of refinement rather than... clay.

 

[Tarvos]

HUMANS ARE SPECIAL SNOWFLAKES

what the fuck. ashes to ashes, dust to dust, man

 

[brandman]

HUMANS ARE SPECIAL SNOWFLAKES

what the fuck. ashes to ashes, dust to dust, man

What? You know, I'm just gonna take from that post as must as I can.

I don't think anyone here as any problems with their special, especially not because of the knowledge that we are the product of thousands of years of refinement rather than... clay.

When I say, "Clay", that didn't technically mean, "Clay". Because we are sinners, our bodies will return to the earth.

 

[Tarvos]

Humans are no more special than bacteria or ravens. Any meaning attributed to any species is purely a human construct and not a natural one.

 

[GameFreakerZero]

Animals were made for your personal enjoyment and nutrition.

No, animals, hell all organisms great and small, serve a vital part in the maintenance of all the Earth's ecosystems and overall the stasis of the Earth itself, from the tiniest of microbes to the greatest of whales. Congratulations on trivialising the lives of every organism on the planet into the playthings and foodstuffs for a bunch of furless apes, too blinded by their own petit sense of grandeur to realise how fragile and small they really are.

What? Stating animals have no souls? That's the truth and most of you think it will happen to yourselves. When I say this I don't mean there will never be animals in heaven, there will (most likely), but probably not your dog marley.

The reason you're a jerk is because you're putting humans on this big egotistical pedestal above all other animals, stating that we're different and that we're going to eternal paradise because we're God's special little worshipping things but animals are soulless little machines that are just there to entertain us.

There's a difference between believing that everything returns to the soil when it dies with no spiritual implications and believing that humans are amazing and special and God's chosen species and oh my god we're so amazing and brilliant and did I mention we were made by a guy who's infallible so we must be perfect and look at all the amazing things we've done and wow and animals just cease to exist because they're soulless distractions for us.

We are special. It amazes me how you guys think that you evolved from something so lowly and small. Your special. Every one is.

It isn't a question of feeling special about yourself. Want to feel special? You and every single organism on the planet at this moment are the result of millions of years of organisms struggling for life and proving themselves superior or successful over their competitors. And you know what you're doing? Giving the credit to some omnipotent cretin who snapped his fingers and modelled some clay.

 

[Music Dragon]

Once again, frustration has prevented me from remembering that logic is completely ineffective when dealing with someone who has already abandoned it.

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

Well then women are even underneath animals because first God created Adam to take care of his garden, then Adam felt lonely so God created come animals but he was still lonely so God took Adam's rib and made women. So basically God's Plan was a dude and a tiger.
Reminder that the church was still debating over whether women had souls in the 70s 'v'

 

[brandman]

Let me make a very clear point of this: not everyone who says that they're a Christian truly is and therefore has what it takes to pass judgement.

Very true.

First of all, animals do not have souls; they are purely matterial and the only separates an beetle from a rock is complexity. Now, heaven would not just keep filling according to Christian theology because there are a finite number of people who will make it to heaven, and there will eventually come a day when Christians are raptured from the Earth and this world will end.

Finally! This is what I'm talking about! I had trouble but アルセウス七 explained it better. Thanks.

P.S. Vladimir Putin's LJ, you double posted. You might wanna fix that.

 

[GameFreakerZero]

Very true.

Finally! This is what I'm talking about! I had trouble but アルセウス七 explained it better. Thanks.

Both those quotes were posted a while ago and everyone's already posted their own views on them. Please elaborate on your own stances with acknowledgement of our newer posts instead of ignoring them.

 

[xkze]

Ah, no. Only kill what your going to eat. The robot comparison was a little off. Animals were made for your personal enjoyment and nutrition. God gave us control over the earth and everything.

God would probably want us to keep it clean and nice. So in a way, its good to go green, but the fact of people going crazy and hippie-like and devoting life to the planet is wrong. After all, the earth will be eliminated

??????
Is this a common idea? Are most fundamentalist Christians against environmentalism?
This is a terrible terrible thing to believe and also an example of why Christianity is detrimental to humanity

We didn't evolve from a speck, technically, sculpted from a bunch of little clay specs. While animals, were created in a snap, we were sculpted from clay, to the last detail. We are special. It amazes me how you guys think that you evolved from something so lowly and small. Your special. Every one is.

But what about the fact that most animals are extremely complex things?? We are not fucking special, dude. Maybe you have too much of a high-and-mighty complex to wrap your mind around that, but we are no different than any other organism. We are not up on some special platform just because we're capable of cognitive thought.