D/P/Pt PRNG Abuse: Right or Wrong?

[Icalasari]

Smogon figured out how to abuse the DPPt RNG to make it so that you can hatch a shiny with a preferred nature 100% of the time. You don't even need an AR or R4 to get your SID if you have caught at least one shiny on the game, so it is 100% legit, according to them

I am curious, though. Does anybody think that Smogon has gone too far? After all, if one uses Emerald to get Hextuple Flawless parents (Yes, smogon figured out how to abuse Emerald a long time ago), then perfect shinies could soon be as common as dirt (in fact, they are working on how to manipulate IV's using DPPt's broken RNG, so that flawless Shinies ARE as common as dirt)

 

[Thanks for All the Fish]

Quite a bit so. Even if this is competitive battling, *which I do little to none of, don't shoot me.* flawless shinies...now that takes out a good, if not all of the fun, doesn't it?
Then what would the point be?

I know I am going to get trampled by other people saying "this is excellent." but meh.

 

[spaekle]

I'd still consider it cheating, since you're still manipulating the game to do what you want, albeit without any sort of external device. Kind of like using Missingno. to get unlimited Master Balls in R/B.

I wouldn't ever use this to get Pokemon with perfect IV's, but shinies? Sure, whatever. Ever since the PokéRadar, it's not like they're super-amazing-awesome-rare any more. I don't see much difference in spending hours chaining to get a run-of-the-mill Shiny and spending hours going through a long, tedious process that seems fairly easy to mess up if you're not careful.

 

[Yarnchu]

What....what? What is an RNG or SID? I don't visit Smogon, but if its a way to get shinies, then I want to know! Because I can't chain and stuff.

Nevermind...I just googled it.

 

[Icalasari]

RNG = Random Number Generator
SID = Secret ID

You still need at least one shiny that you caught to find your SID without relying on Pokesav or AR, however


Also, I forgot to mention. Due to how the formula works, eggs have a 1:~2000 chance of being shiny in Platinum if you choose not to abuse the RNG


My opinion? Well, I'm using it myself (Although I will label such breeds as PtRNG Abuse), but I wouldn't be surprised if Generation 5 can't trade with Generation 4 due to some arbitrary reason such as, "Now Pokemon can have up to 63 IV's in a stat :D" =/

 

[Yarnchu]

This seems like it would be wrong, but I'll probably try it anyways.

 

[Negrek]

Also, I forgot to mention. Due to how the formula works, eggs have a 1:~2000 chance of being shiny in Platinum if you choose not to abuse the RNG

Only if you breed with two international parents, and that was true in Diamond and Pearl as well. And that works even if you're paying attention to the RNG.

Don't see any problem with it. People have EV trained, IV bred, chained, soft-reset, and performed other methods of influencing the game's hidden generators since the very first games; now that it can be done more precisely, what's the big deal? Yes, it makes it easier, but IMO when all the difficulty is is making loads of RNG calls and hoping you get lucky (this is all IV breeding is--pop in two good parents and SR like mad in hopes of getting the results you want), the reward is really misplaced. There's no "skill" in IV breeding, or very little beyond the basics of knowing to put two high-IV pokémon together. It's all just who got lucky. So, really, having high-IV pokémon is a sign of nothing more than getting lucky. Same for a shiny. Personally, I'm more impressed by someone who has the know-how to build a killer team and play it well, whether it takes them ten minutes or ten years to do so. The time involved in obtaining the pokémon, to me, signifies nothing more than time that you could have spent actually doing something with them instead.

If you don't want to play the game using this method, just want to chain for shinies--or not even that--then that's fine. Don't trade for shinies with people that you know use this method, don't use it yourself, just take what you get and be proud of it. There's nothing wrong with wanting shinies to be "a surprise" or "special" in the context of your game--it's insinuating that other people are doing something wrong by using this method in their game that I take issue with.

I was amused to see the PRNG manipulation stuff pop up when Platinum arrived, seeing as I had figured out that this might be possible back in November, but never finished testing it.

 

[Yarnchu]

I would do it now but my brother is trying to sleep and if I get on the computer in there he will start yelling and complaining and crap, plus the stuff I need is on it. I was going to get a Shiny Phione. I might also breed a Shiny Charmander, cause Black Charizards are epic and stuff.

EDIT: The thing you mentioned with Emerald, can it work with other Advanced games? I only have acess to Sapphire and Leafgreen at the moment.

 

[Negrek]

EDIT: The thing you mentioned with Emerald, can it work with other Advanced games? I only have acess to Sapphire and Leafgreen at the moment.

Nope; those games have different PRNG's and haven't been cracked yet. Not that anybody's really been trying that I know of.

 

[Ether's Bane]

Not wrong, but it's probably discouraged.

 

[Doctor Jimmy]

Shinys are supposed to be rare--that's why people love them so much, because it's an accomplishment to get one. However, now that cheats can be used to get them, they seem more like alternate color palettes than objects of rarity.

 

[Butterfree]

Getting shinies through RNG manipulation quite defeats the point of shinies - fundamentally, they're bragging rights trophies - but if you just think the shiny is pretty and want to look at it, I don't really see a problem with it as long as you don't go around pretending you have any claim to the associated bragging rights. Same as with hacking a shiny, really.

I don't see IVs as being that much different. A Pokémon that is bred for perfect IVs the hard way is a bragging rights trophy; if you take a shortcut to getting there because you happen to be building a competitive team, you don't get the same bragging rights anymore, but it's just saving you a lengthy luck-dependent process.

 

[Felidire]

You can use AR and R4 to make shinies which are perfectly within legitimate boundaries, and no one would be the wiser because there's no way to tell if they're hacked or not. PBR is choc-full of these.

But yeah, on a personal note, I dislike any pokemon with 31-IV's in every stat(legitimate or not). The shiny thing doesn't bother me at all because if someone wants a pokemon of a certain color, I see no problem in them being able to have one. It's just a color.

Quite a bit so. Even if this is competitive battling, *which I do little to none of, don't shoot me.* flawless shinies...now that takes out a good, if not all of the fun, doesn't it?

Actually, it saves a bucket load of time on breeding pokemon for competitive purposes.

You don't do competitive battling by your own admission, so i'm assuming that you've never actually sat down and:
-spent an hour or so planning out a good team
-spent about 2 hours breeding 1 of the 6 pokemon for the best IV's possible
-Spent 0.5-2 hours EV training that single pokemon
-Leveling the pokemon up once you've finished EV training.

-Repeated the same process for the remaining 5 pokemon.

Then again, this grueling process doesn't justify hacking shiny pokemon with 31 IV's in every stat, so It would be better if they left well enough alone.

(But we all know that's not going to happen).
♥​

I don't see IVs as being that much different. A Pokémon that is bred for perfect IVs the hard way is a bragging rights trophy;

The only problem is that it's literally impossible (something like a 1073741824 chance) of getting a pokemon with perfect IV's in every stat; and I say that as someone who spent over a year breeding eevee's and checking their IV's trying to get a perfect one. (Never happened).

Even then, chances of someone getting perfect IV's on a pokemon they bred for competitive battling(a little suss?) is substantially lower than just finding a random flawless pokemon (which we'd never bother checking anyway). If someone claims that they conveniently have a pokemon with flawless IV's in their competitive team, it's quite obvious that everyone will accuse them of being a hacker, (because they are..) The guy with the legitimate pokemon would keep his mouth closed, and instead of bragging he'd just feel proud. (you don't work your ass off trying to get a perfect IV pokemon, just to brag to others.. if you do then you're a rather sad person imo). But yeah it's more of a self-gratification thing if anything?

The hacker on the other hand, would brag about how unbelievably difficult it was to get the flawless pokemon, so to gain more praise from others. So I think it's fairly safe to assume that all flawless pokemon in a competitive team are hacked.

Shinies are different, where I think they're most probably hacked, I just say "cool, you're lucky."

 

[Negrek]

The only problem is that it's literally impossible (something like a 1073741824 chance) of getting a pokemon with perfect IV's in every stat; and I say that as someone who spent over a year breeding eevee's and checking their IV's trying to get a perfect one. (Never happened).

If it weren't possible, you couldn't do it with PRNG manipulation. Even before PRNG manipulation appeared, there were in fact people who had flawless pokémon through straight-up breeding; triple and quad-flawless weren't uncommon, which made breeding much easier. The chance of finding a flawless pokémon in the wild is 1/887503681, barring any funkiness of the RNG or math fail on my part.

Even then, chances of someone getting perfect IV's on a pokemon they bred for competitive battling(a little suss?) is substantially lower than just finding a random flawless pokemon (which we'd never bother checking anyway).

Err, no. If that were the case, then people would go out and chain for pokémon instead of breeding them whenever possible. If you're using two tri- or quad-flawless parents, it's a lot easier to breed a straight flawless egg than simply going out and hoping to find one.

The hacker on the other hand, would brag about how unbelievably difficult it was to get the flawless pokemon, so to gain more praise from others. So I think it's fairly safe to assume that all flawless pokemon in a competitive team are hacked.

I have never met a hacker stupid enough to do that, but then again I don't usually hang around with eleven-year-olds. While it is more likely than not that a flawless pokémon has been hacked, it is definitely not safe to assume that, especially if you're playing against a top-tier player (especially a top-tier Japanese player, as the Japanese are very much more hack-averse than players in other countries).

 

[Felidire]

I used to breed eevees (which the parents had 3-4 Perfect IV's) for over a year, and I never got a single one which had 31 in every stat. Sometimes 2, maybe 3 stats had 31 IV's, never more than 4 (which were the ones I threw in the daycare). I'm not exaggerating btw, I used to spend hours each day trying, even going -left-right-left-right-left-right- hatching eggs while watching a movie. It might increase the odds a little(my math fails too), but it's still incredibly unlikely.

I think if you're versing top-tier players it's all the more reason to consider hacked pokemon, and I got the idea that a lot of the Japanese hacked.. In fact, I don't know if you get this over in North America (or if it's because i'm in Australia), but 19 out of every 20 opponents on PBR WiFi are Japanese for me; and trust me.. they hack pokemon like they hack whales.


..You don't even need 31 IV's in every stat, I give my pokemon 2 or 3 stats with 31 IV's and then the less important stats get a random number between 10-25. It just saves time, and personally that's the best part about it.

 

[Negrek]

I used to breed eevees (which the parents had 3-4 Perfect IV's) for over a year, and I never got a single one which had 31 in every stat. Sometimes 2, maybe 3 stats had 31 IV's, never more than 4 (which were the ones I threw in the daycare). I'm not exaggerating btw, I used to spend hours each day trying, even going -left-right-left-right-left-right- hatching eggs while watching a movie. It might increase the odds a little(my math fails too), but it's still incredibly unlikely.

*shrug* Sorry, but it happens. Competitive grade on Smogon since well into last year has been at least four flawless, all other relevant 25+, and many of the top breeders had pokémon with five or more flawless IV's available.

I think if you're versing top-tier players it's all the more reason to consider hacked pokemon, and I got the idea that a lot of the Japanese hacked.. In fact, I don't know if you get this over in North America (or if it's because i'm in Australia), but 19 out of every 20 opponents on PBR WiFi are Japanese for me; and trust me.. they hack pokemon like they hack whales.

I didn't tend to get many Japanese players on wi-fi due to the time difference; I'd have to play at 1/2 AM to see a significant number. However, while I'm sure that a lot of the more casual players hack stuff just like casual players in other countries do, among the competitive types there's not nearly as much tolerance for that stuff as there is the English-speaking competitive community.

..You don't even need 31 IV's in every stat, I give my pokemon 2 or 3 stats with 31 IV's and then the less important stats get a random number between 10-25. It just saves time, and personally that's the best part about it.

Indeed you don't. So why complain if people want to go for it?

 

[Dewgong]

i don't have a problem with it because it's how the game works.

if it doesn't involve an external device, i don't care; i might try this myself.

 

[J.T.]

Defeats the purpose completely. Even if I knew what the fuck all that meant I wouldn't do it.

(Then again, I got all the shiny I need in my Gyarados :D)

 

[surskitty]

If you've got the patience to do it, then feel free. Just don't brag about it.

 

[Felidire]

Indeed you don't. So why complain if people want to go for it?

Because those people are exploiting the game in order to gain an unfair advantage over others.
There's a line between making pokemon with average IV's to save time, and exploiting the game to get pokemon with 31 IV's in every stat.