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Question Box

blazheirio889

Banned
Pronoun
she
Is ASB keeping the weight-based everything for body slam, seismic toss, etc?

Seismic toss has completely different summary and description instructions, incidentally.
I swear we had a discussion about Body Slam somewhere and concluded it should work as it does in-game. Seismic Toss, however, is still weight-based because, no matter how hilarious the image, I don't think we should have Igglybuff tossing Steelix around for massive damage.

I've edited the summaries/descriptions for both.

I have some questions regarding items and moves that interact with them.

Firstly, how does Recycle work with moves like Knock Off, Fling, Bug Bite etc? In the games, Recycle can restore items lost intentionally (Fling, Natural Gift) but not items lost unintentionally (Knock Off, Pluck, Bug Bite), and you cannot Recycle an item if it's being held by someone else (Trick, Switcheroo, probably Bestow). I'd assume it works the same in ASB, but it makes less sense here. What's the difference between Recycling an item that I Flung away versus Recycling an item that my opponent Knocked Off? What if I command my Pokémon to just drop something on the ground, can I Recycle it then?

Building on the above: can you command a Pokémon to give its item to an ally? Intuitively you'd say yes, you just have to hand it over. But then, is there any advantage to using the move Bestow instead? Though I guess Bestow still has a use in forcing items on opponents.

And continuing on that note: what about items with harmful effects, like Black Sludge or Sticky Barb? Can you command your Pokémon to just drop an item? Even if it's been Tricked onto them, for example?
I think the mechanics of Recycle should work the same as in-game. tbh to be Recycle didn't make much sense anyway -- the difference between Recycling an item that was Flung versus Knocked Off is pretty unclear to me in-game, too??

If you just drop the item, it's not exactly /lost/, so I'd say that you can't Recycle it.

Yes, you can give an item to an ally.

Uhhh I'm tempted to say that yes, you can just drop it, since it's just like any other item, but that /does/ reduce the utility of Sticky Barb by a lot. Maybe we can modify Sticky Barb specifically so that it can't be dropped?

(I hope I answered everything!)

Should the first attempt at TruetoCheese's ref test battle give the full usual ref test prizes?
Hmm, since there was only one send-out each, how about half of the usual monetary prizes? Anyway, I'm not entirely sure why ref test battles give different rewards, so I'll probably change that in the near future?
 
I'd say you should be able to recycle an item if it was consumed - if an item was knocked off you can still pick it up again as easily as if you dropped it. If you fling a berry it gets mooshed up and activated on the opponent so it's kind of like you "used" it, but if you fling an iron ball it's still there.

Sticky barb in particular should... stick to the opponent and be hard to remove, yeah. On the other hand, it would take a full action to drop, and wasting your opponent's action is a reasonably powerful effect.
 

blazheirio889

Banned
Pronoun
she
Iii think that's what I meant but I am not very clear so basically what allitersonance said.

re: Sticky Barb, the description says it only passes on if the opponent uses a contact move? And the opponent can just avoid doing that and (slowly) rack up damage. We could change it to if the holder also uses a contact attack?
Also, perhaps we can add a phrase saying that it can be forcibly removed at the cost of an action and some damage? iirc items don't actually take a full action to drop (though I could be wrong on that)
 

blazheirio889

Banned
Pronoun
she
It's like a game of hot potato, except the potato is very spiky!

I'll leave it open for discussion for a day or so, and implement the changes I described above if there are no objections.
 
Should make it not count in the held item slot, except for the very instant that the pokemon brings it into battle. It makes no sense that having something in your paws prevents the sticky barb from catching on your skin. Also this means nothing gets in the way of spiky hot potato.
 

Meursault

I am the man who arranges the blocks.
i am very much pro-spiky hot potato. but does it affect Unburden and similar abilities?

EDIT: and what if a sticky barb is flung at someone already holding a sticky barb? does it stack? can they fling both barbs at once?
 
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Zhorken

groove out!
When you agree to e-ref a battle, does the seven-day bonus start counting from there, or from the date on the last commands?
 

Zekrom_B0lt

New member
Pronoun
it
For the tourney does a replacement ref need to finish the battle if the original ref doesn't make the dq time or will the grace period last a very long time for the original refs in the tourney ?
 

shy ♡

whispers in gay
For the tourney does a replacement ref need to finish the battle if the original ref doesn't make the dq time or will the grace period last a very long time for the original refs in the tourney ?
Could you please calm down about refs taking a bit of time? Reffing is hard work.
 

MampersandF

bastard of puppets
Pronoun
any
re held items: The way Recycle works in the games can be made to make the most sense in ASB as well; after all, consuming an item of your own volition gives you the most control over how much of the item is left, so they can make it just enought for Recycle, while a foe using Knock Off or Incinerate is more interested in making it so there's nothing left (in the target's hands or in existance, as it were). Sticky Barb should definitely be an exception in terms of items you can let go of, and Spiky Potato is good for me. However, the problem with letting go of items persists with things like Tricking/Switcherooing your foe into holding Black Sludge or a Flame Orb -- maybe we can make it so, when either of those moves are used, the Pokémon targeted by them can't immediately drop the item, as they haven't noticed it yet/have just been tricked into holding it and are still easily persuaded into continuing to hold it. I'd make it so the Tricked/Switcheroo'd item has to remain held for 2~3 actions.

re Zhorken: It counts from when the e-ref agreed to pick up the battle, although it might not be a bad idea to make it so they don't have as long to benefit from the bonus, since they're essentially agreeing to deliver something soon.
 

Music Dragon

Doosic Maggon
Pronoun
she
re held items: The way Recycle works in the games can be made to make the most sense in ASB as well; after all, consuming an item of your own volition gives you the most control over how much of the item is left, so they can make it just enought for Recycle, while a foe using Knock Off or Incinerate is more interested in making it so there's nothing left (in the target's hands or in existance, as it were). Sticky Barb should definitely be an exception in terms of items you can let go of, and Spiky Potato is good for me. However, the problem with letting go of items persists with things like Tricking/Switcherooing your foe into holding Black Sludge or a Flame Orb -- maybe we can make it so, when either of those moves are used, the Pokémon targeted by them can't immediately drop the item, as they haven't noticed it yet/have just been tricked into holding it and are still easily persuaded into continuing to hold it. I'd make it so the Tricked/Switcheroo'd item has to remain held for 2~3 actions.
I like this version the most, since it enables the greatest number of different tactics. Variety is fun!
 

Totodile

up to no good
Pronoun
she
If a Pokemon with Protean uses a move that changes its type, and then gets its ability changed, does it retain its new type? Or does it revert back to its original type?
 

Zhorken

groove out!
If your opponent is using a -4 priority move, can you still command your Pokémon to deliberately go second with a 0 priority move?

EDIT: Ooh, another idea: given that the Canonical Combo Example is Thunder Punch + Comet Punch, would Drain Punch + Focus Punch work? And would it still have -3 priority or higher?
 
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Meowth

but is a sheep entering.
If a Pokemon with Protean uses a move that changes its type, and then gets its ability changed, does it retain its new type? Or does it revert back to its original type?
Apparently in the games eliminating Protean doesn't get rid of its effects at the point where it is eliminated; I presume the same would follow in ASB.

If your opponent is using a -4 priority move, can you still command your Pokémon to deliberately go second with a 0 priority move?
Personally I don't think the ability to wait to strike after an opponent should work outside the move's priority bracket.
 
Waiting to act with a higher priority move should remain possible (for example, dodging with quick attack), but in this particular situation, the snorunt is waiting to see if you're going to attack first before using avalanche/frost breath. So if you try to wait until after the snorunt moves, the snorunt is just gonna keep waiting (or however the ref resolves the paradox) and you'll also be waiting for something to happen except it never does.

Focus punch combos would never have a higher priority than focus punch, but imo focus punch wouldn't easily become part of a combo precisely because of all the focus it requires.
 

Mai

Banned
Focus punch combos would never have a higher priority than focus punch, but imo focus punch wouldn't easily become part of a combo precisely because of all the focus it requires.
There is precedent, though! I did it!

I don't think comboing focus punch with another punching move should be impossible. It might be a lot more inefficient than other combos, if you view it as difficult enough - just adding secondary effect and not damage - but I don't think that's necessary.
 
ugh res why

I don't think it makes sense that, if a move uses all of your concentration, you can also think of adding shenanigans to it. Also it emits an intense amount of ~fighting energy~ that I think would be disruptive to most other kinds of energy, even other fighting energy that has the magical property of draining stuff; two competing types of energy would be generally hard to use at once. It's similar to how most combos involving special attacks won't work out too well.
 

Mai

Banned
ugh res why

I don't think it makes sense that, if a move uses all of your concentration, you can also think of adding shenanigans to it. Also it emits an intense amount of ~fighting energy~ that I think would be disruptive to most other kinds of energy, even other fighting energy that has the magical property of draining stuff; two competing types of energy would be generally hard to use at once. It's similar to how most combos involving special attacks won't work out too well.
because why not :(

(because indirect healing, I wanted indirect healing)

I think focus punch could also be logically interpreted as something like (this is a punch; you took a lot of time charging up the punch and therefore it's very strong, but the move in itself isn't inherently uncomboable). Some other punching moves could therefore combo with/charge like focus punch and get a similar effect. That large amount of ~fighting energy~ could be swapped for or added to the other fighting energy, then; I mean, the ~energy~ of thunder punch and comet punch don't interfere (and thunder punch should be able to combo with focus punch for an electric type attack, too - just swap it for ~electric energy~, it's not it being all electric energy makes perfect sense anyway). It's still a physical attack, not a special one.

Also, focus punch's flavor states "The user's fist, glowing with Fighting energy, is impervious to damage during the attack." This is a silly description because it makes it sound like you could block an attack with your fist and, not taking damage, still execute the focus punch. Probably not ideal, but funny.
 
It requires so much concentration that being hit by, like, a rock, will disrupt the whole thing. It's not just a punch that requires time charging up. If you did rock throw at a pokemon charging up a solarbeam it wouldn't ruin the whole attack, but it would for focus punch. That's the primary reason for it to be hard to combo - you can't think of doing much else.

The fighting energy might not be the entirety of the damage but it's still something that builds up as you charge up, and is part of what makes focus punch a focus punch, so it wouldn't be something you can simply swap around, imo.
 
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