The QUILTBAG Club (formerly the LGBT club)

[Butterfree]

I read about a vaguely similar study (measuring erections in men and lubrication in women) showing people of different genders and sexualities images of 1) a heterosexual couple having sex, 2) a lesbian couple having sex, 3) a gay male couple having sex, 4) a naked woman walking on a beach, 5) a naked man walking on a beach, and 6) chimpanzees having sex. If I remember correctly, men roughly followed the rule that they were aroused if it involved someone they were attracted to; women, on the other hand, were generally aroused by the sexual images in general (even if they involved chimpanzees or only people they weren't attracted to) and not by the non-sexual naked people walking on a beach regardless of whether they were attracted to them or not.

I wouldn't exactly interpret that as women tending more towards bisexual, unless you also wanted to say women tend more towards bestiality. It's just that the brain's 'let's get aroused now' rule of thumb involves 'there is sex going on' more than 'there are naked women/men'.

 

[opaltiger]

I am and will always be deeply suspicious of any study that claims to have discovered an innate difference between the sexes. No experiment can be controlled well enough to remove entirely the effect of society.

 

[Zeph]

So I had a conversation with a friend today, where we were talking about this other friend of ours, whom I used to be really close friends with until he started being a bit of a figurative penis.The friend I was talking to, however, told me of a conversation they had about this other guy we know, who can never decide if he's bi or gay and always makes a big drama about it.

So apparently during this conversation, this little extract came up (1 is the girl I was actually talking to, 2 is the guy I used to be close with and with whom she was talking):

1: I really hate it when people go on about being gay just for attention.
2: Yeah. Reminds me of someone else.
1: Who do you mean?
2: You know? That other one we know?
1: [Who etc]
1: *Nods in my direction*

And, well, yeah, when she told me he'd said that, I was genuinely really offended. Apparently the conversation continued with him saying that I apparently 'decided' to like men just so I could 'get attention' from people. While this of course makes no sense for reasons I don't even need to explain, the one thing that is strangest is that his mother has been in a long-lasting relationship with another woman for, as far as I know, at least five years. Surely he should know there's no "choice" about it?

After she told me this, I just sat there spluttering in utter offence and bemusement.

Frankly the only thing stopping me from sending him a very angry e-mail is the fact that I know he'd probably entirely ignore it.

...So the friend I was talking to just told me that in reality, the other guy doesn't think I 'chose' to be gay.

He thinks I 'pretend' to be gay, to 'get attention from women'.

...What?

He then apparently went on to say that all my female friends with whom I can quite comfortably hold alarmingly flirty conversations are 'naive'. So apparently I say I like men so that I can get... women. Riiiight.

 

[Butterfree]

I am and will always be deeply suspicious of any study that claims to have discovered an innate difference between the sexes. No experiment can be controlled well enough to remove entirely the effect of society.

Doesn't have to be innate! The study is exactly equally interesting if this is rooted in society.

 

[opaltiger]

Doesn't have to be innate! The study is exactly equally interesting if this is rooted in society.

I was responding to Harlequin and his use of the word 'wired'.

 

[Crazy Linoone]

...So the friend I was talking to just told me that in reality, the other guy doesn't think I 'chose' to be gay.

He thinks I 'pretend' to be gay, to 'get attention from women'.

...What?

He then apparently went on to say that all my female friends with whom I can quite comfortably hold alarmingly flirty conversations are 'naive'. So apparently I say I like men so that I can get... women. Riiiight.

They're just jealous.

 

[...]

Most people have never encountered asexuality outside of a scientific context before so it stands to reason that they'll associate it with asexual reproduction rather than "I don't have any interest in sex".

That's still really stupid. I mean, come on. Use a little logic; asexuals aren't bacteria. :/

He then apparently went on to say that all my female friends with whom I can quite comfortably hold alarmingly flirty conversations are 'naive'. So apparently I say I like men so that I can get... women. Riiiight.

I've had a couple of guys make this assumption about me as well. About the only accurate statement is that it's easier to talk to girls. Idk. Still really illogical.

 

[Harlequin]

I was responding to Harlequin and his use of the word 'wired'.

I suppose. I mean, it's entirely possible that any difference is totally due to society's influence, but it's entirely possible that it isn't and that it actually is innate. Another similar article I read at the same time was about how there's a tendency for there to be physical differences between straight men/gay men and straight women/gay women and differences in response to certain stimuli. I think I might have linked that one in the old LGBT club thread but I'm not sure.

I'm still looking for the article about women potentially having a preference rather than an orientation, too. I can't seem to find it any more, and nor can I remember where I was originally linked to it. It's frustrating. :(

Although I do agree with Butterfree -- it's interesting even if it's due to socialisation rather than genetics.

 

[Zeph]

They're just jealous.

Amusingly (Or not amusingly) enough, this is actually proven true - His ex-girlfriend is one of my closest friends, and when they were still together, he would get ridiculously jealous and angry whenever we so much as spoke to each other.

 

[opaltiger]

That's still really stupid. I mean, come on. Use a little logic; asexuals aren't bacteria. :/

Not really! Ignorance isn't the same as stupidity.

Also, I'm a natsci, I'm allowed to nitpick: bacteria can reproduce sexually and things other than bacteria can reproduce asexually.

 

[Harlequin]

Not really! Ignorance isn't the same as stupidity.

Also, I'm a natsci, I'm allowed to nitpick: bacteria can reproduce sexually and things other than bacteria can reproduce asexually.

In fact, the only animals that haven't ever exhibited asexual reproduction (to the best of our knowledge) are mammals! Everyone else has at least one species that can do it.

 

[MentheLapin]

In fact, the only animals that haven't ever exhibited asexual reproduction (to the best of our knowledge) are mammals! Everyone else has at least one species that can do it.

The Komodo dragon is a reptile and they have been observed to reproduce via parthenogenesis...

Unless I have no idea what I'm on about. I have no idea what I'm on about, do I?

 

[hopeandjoy]

There's also a species of lesbian lizards called the New Mexico Whiptail. There are no males. At all. They fake mating and the bottom lizard lays a four eggs.

Have I mentioned it is my favorite species of lizard?

And people say that homosexuality is unnatural.

 

[opaltiger]

The Komodo dragon is a reptile and they have been observed to reproduce via parthenogenesis...

Unless I have no idea what I'm on about. I have no idea what I'm on about, do I?

Uh, yeah, Harlequin said that mammals are the only class of animals to not display some form of asexual reproduction. I'm not sure offhand if that's quite true, but certainly it is more widespread among animals than one might think.

 

[MentheLapin]

Uh, yeah, Harlequin said that mammals are the only class of animals to not display some form of asexual reproduction. I'm not sure offhand if that's quite true, but certainly it is more widespread among animals than one might think.

Oh, I misread. Ignore me :P

 

[Harlequin]

Uh, yeah, Harlequin said that mammals are the only class of animals to not display some form of asexual reproduction. I'm not sure offhand if that's quite true, but certainly it is more widespread among animals than one might think.

It used to be that, like, sharks and stuff didn't do it, but then a shark did it so I think it's limited to just mammals. Even if it isn't, asexual reproduction is a fairly common phenomenon.

 

[Harlequin]

There's also a species of lesbian lizards called the New Mexico Whiptail. There are no males. At all. They fake mating and the bottom lizard lays a four eggs.

Have I mentioned it is my favorite species of lizard?

And people say that homosexuality is unnatural.

That lizard species is really interesting! We had a series of lectures a while back and one of the lectures talked about this species of lizard. What they actually do is fascinating. Depending on the levels of particular hormones in each lizard they engage in different types of behaviour. One lizard will "top" and the other will "bottom" and they swap throughout the breeding season thingy. It's cool.

 

[Diz]

I suppose. I mean, it's entirely possible that any difference is totally due to society's influence, but it's entirely possible that it isn't and that it actually is innate. Another similar article I read at the same time was about how there's a tendency for there to be physical differences between straight men/gay men and straight women/gay women and differences in response to certain stimuli. I think I might have linked that one in the old LGBT club thread but I'm not sure.

You mentioned it in the old thread when I brought up the subject of gaydars.

Speaking of which, I get the feeling that I getting better at telling when somebody should belong to this club, just from their mannerisms. Which may mean I'm stereotyping but works...


Okay, so I should probably explain that. It was a speech meet yesterday, and when we walked into the cafeteria, he was just sitting there talking and I could tell he was gay. He wasn't flamboyantly dressed, or acting in a way that screamed out his sexuality. I could just tell. A friend of mine, who's in college and was along with out team to judge, also, on his own, mentioned to me that the same guy might be gay. Not really stereotyping at all, just a feeling that was confirmed by another. I suppose the above was an unfortunate word choice.

 

[Dinru]

You mentioned it in the old thread when I brought up the subject of gaydars.

Speaking of which, I get the feeling that I getting better at telling when somebody should belong to this club, just from their mannerisms. Which may mean I'm stereotyping but works...

May mean you're stereotyping?

 

[Harlequin]

So they reproduce entirely based on hormones? Since they're all female, I don't see any other way. That's pretty fascinating, actually.

Here's a video! http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/5/l_015_01.html

The guy mentions in the video that the "lesbian" mating behaviour thing is a hypothesis, and that's true, but it is true that they simulate mating behaviour based on relative levels of oestrogen and progesterone. They swap around every three weeks of the breeding season (and show behaviour similar to that of lizards with two sexes!).