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Theism, Religion and Lack thereof
- Thread starter Aisling
- Start date
Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
True, but most of the theists we get are anti-abortion (and very few of the TCoDers that aren't theists are anti-abortion), so.
True, but most of the theists we get are anti-abortion (and very few of the TCoDers that aren't theists are anti-abortion), so.
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Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
The Bible says god created man. The theory of evolution says man evolved from other organisms. They are not compatible in the slightest.
Two points:
1. If you're taking a chance, the odds are infinitely small that you're right - after all, there are loads of religions. Who's to say yours is the one that will save you from torture? Also, this presupposes that the existence of god is equally as likely as the non-existence of god. That simply isn't true.
2. Nor, I see, is there anything that tells you to believe. The only reason you do is because you were brought up to. Try and let go of that. Consider: religion promotes division. People commit murder in the name of religion. People wage war in the name of religion. Do you really want to be associated with that? All the things religion gives you - a sense of purpose, a moral code, and so on - you can have without it. The only reason you believe is because you were brought up to. Are you sure a belief you hold merely by chance is one worth holding on to?
The Bible says god created man. The theory of evolution says man evolved from other organisms. They are not compatible in the slightest.
Two points:
1. If you're taking a chance, the odds are infinitely small that you're right - after all, there are loads of religions. Who's to say yours is the one that will save you from torture? Also, this presupposes that the existence of god is equally as likely as the non-existence of god. That simply isn't true.
2. Nor, I see, is there anything that tells you to believe. The only reason you do is because you were brought up to. Try and let go of that. Consider: religion promotes division. People commit murder in the name of religion. People wage war in the name of religion. Do you really want to be associated with that? All the things religion gives you - a sense of purpose, a moral code, and so on - you can have without it. The only reason you believe is because you were brought up to. Are you sure a belief you hold merely by chance is one worth holding on to?
Saith
New member
Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
Just a (pretty important) thing:
If God designed evolution, or hell, if he allowed it to happen, he wouldn't be a loving god.
A loving god wouldn't choose a system that necessitates immeasurable bloodshed. The theory of evolution depends on the inferior specimens perishing without mating. Therefore, if evolution is supported by god, he's a bit of akinky (e: sadistic) shit.
e:
Also this.
Just a (pretty important) thing:
If God designed evolution, or hell, if he allowed it to happen, he wouldn't be a loving god.
A loving god wouldn't choose a system that necessitates immeasurable bloodshed. The theory of evolution depends on the inferior specimens perishing without mating. Therefore, if evolution is supported by god, he's a bit of a
e:
Also this.
Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
haha, I was originally going to use "anti-abortion" but changed it because I thought "pro-life" was politically correct. ... or something.
haha, I was originally going to use "anti-abortion" but changed it because I thought "pro-life" was politically correct. ... or something.
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Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
No, the theory of evolution relies on some individuals being slightly better at producing offspring than others. It is not nearly as sadistic as you are trying to make it sound,
edit: why not anti-choice? It fits with pro-choice, and it doesn't insinuate that pro-choicers are pro-abortion.
No, the theory of evolution relies on some individuals being slightly better at producing offspring than others. It is not nearly as sadistic as you are trying to make it sound,
edit: why not anti-choice? It fits with pro-choice, and it doesn't insinuate that pro-choicers are pro-abortion.
Flora
local hellion
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Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
The Bible isn't to be taken literally (it's more like mythology; it attempts to explain several things and is not necessarily how things truly happened). It's possible that God simply created the organisms that would eventually evolve into mankind. If that is the case, the reason that the Bible says God created man specifically would simply have been caused by the lack of the theory of evolution at the time.
EDIT: Also, I hatehatehate abortion but think that it shouldn't be illegalized because women would get more risky illegal abortions if they really don't want a kid. What would that make me? (I'm anti-abortion in that I hate it but pro-choice in that it shouldn't be illegal)
The Bible isn't to be taken literally (it's more like mythology; it attempts to explain several things and is not necessarily how things truly happened). It's possible that God simply created the organisms that would eventually evolve into mankind. If that is the case, the reason that the Bible says God created man specifically would simply have been caused by the lack of the theory of evolution at the time.
EDIT: Also, I hatehatehate abortion but think that it shouldn't be illegalized because women would get more risky illegal abortions if they really don't want a kid. What would that make me? (I'm anti-abortion in that I hate it but pro-choice in that it shouldn't be illegal)
Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
People who are against abortion call themselves "pro-lifers" because everyone would agree that being "pro-life" is good. It makes them sound better than they really are.
People who are against abortion call themselves "pro-lifers" because everyone would agree that being "pro-life" is good. It makes them sound better than they really are.
Saith
New member
Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
I wasn't saying that evolution was sadistic, I was saying that someone who orchestrated such a system would be pretty bad.
I wasn't saying that evolution was sadistic, I was saying that someone who orchestrated such a system would be pretty bad.
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Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
Oh, come on. If the Bible is to be interpreted to that ridiculous extent it is entirely useless. Man was created in god's image - are you suggesting god is a prehistoric prokaryotic organism?
Why? Natural selection is a very elegant and logical way of getting complex things out of simple ones.
Oh, come on. If the Bible is to be interpreted to that ridiculous extent it is entirely useless. Man was created in god's image - are you suggesting god is a prehistoric prokaryotic organism?
Why? Natural selection is a very elegant and logical way of getting complex things out of simple ones.
Sage Noctowl
Because Awesome-me = 2 times the awesome
Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
A. Who is not to say that god created man by evolving it from other organisms?
1. I don't see anything wrong with believing something that might be wrong. Sure, that means I'm wrong, but in the end, who really cares?
2. It is a sad fact that a ton of people kill in the name of religion. But why do they do this? The bible never tells us to go off killing other people just because they have a different belief set than us. The fact that I'm religious doesn't mean that I'm going to go aroud killing people because they think differently. It's not my fault people are stupid. The bible also tells us not to divide, but it is human nature to divide and split. There's lots of different beliefs in atheism, and splits, but I don't see any complaining from you there.
Edit: I just got ninja'd eightfold
To the comment that will hopefully remain above me: God created us to be evolved from the creatures before us in his image, not the very first being. Then you would be saying that God is a Hydrogen atom.
Wow, that's normally a point I get from creationists.
A. Who is not to say that god created man by evolving it from other organisms?
1. I don't see anything wrong with believing something that might be wrong. Sure, that means I'm wrong, but in the end, who really cares?
2. It is a sad fact that a ton of people kill in the name of religion. But why do they do this? The bible never tells us to go off killing other people just because they have a different belief set than us. The fact that I'm religious doesn't mean that I'm going to go aroud killing people because they think differently. It's not my fault people are stupid. The bible also tells us not to divide, but it is human nature to divide and split. There's lots of different beliefs in atheism, and splits, but I don't see any complaining from you there.
Edit: I just got ninja'd eightfold
To the comment that will hopefully remain above me: God created us to be evolved from the creatures before us in his image, not the very first being. Then you would be saying that God is a Hydrogen atom.
Wow, that's normally a point I get from creationists.
Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
You're right, that sounds better, and makes them sound just as terrible as they really are.
Sage Noctowl, 1) it's called delusion and that is not a Good Thing, and 2) it happens more than once in the Bible.
You're right, that sounds better, and makes them sound just as terrible as they really are.
Sage Noctowl, 1) it's called delusion and that is not a Good Thing, and 2) it happens more than once in the Bible.
J.T.
wat
Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
Because calling themselves "anti-choice" doesn't make them seem very nice.
Because calling themselves "anti-choice" doesn't make them seem very nice.
Saith
New member
Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
You, I guess? There is as much evidence for the Christian god's existence as for any mythological being.
You seem to not even consider that another religion may be right.
What if Islam is right? You'll care 'cause you'll go to the bad afterlife.
In fact, you should care a lot more than you do at the moment. I don't, because I don't see enough evidence for a god that cares what we do, so I can live my life not fearing the afterlife.
e:
You, I guess? There is as much evidence for the Christian god's existence as for any mythological being.
You seem to not even consider that another religion may be right.
What if Islam is right? You'll care 'cause you'll go to the bad afterlife.
In fact, you should care a lot more than you do at the moment. I don't, because I don't see enough evidence for a god that cares what we do, so I can live my life not fearing the afterlife.
e:
I'm not saying it's a bad system, but if you have the ability to make a species immediately, ex nihlo, then why would you choose, instead, to subject them to pointless suffering?opaltiger said:
Flora
local hellion
- Pronoun
- they/he/it/neos
Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
The Bible was created by imperfect men sometime after 587 BC (during the Babylonian exile), IIRC. They wrote it so it would make sense to their peers.
In terms of evolution, it could be said that God guided the path to human evolution so that the end result (or near-end result) would be in his image.
The Bible was created by imperfect men sometime after 587 BC (during the Babylonian exile), IIRC. They wrote it so it would make sense to their peers.
In terms of evolution, it could be said that God guided the path to human evolution so that the end result (or near-end result) would be in his image.
Pwnemon
will remain confined to the pokemon topics
Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
While that interpretation of the theory of evolution is certainly incompatible, I tie that more to the Big Bang Theory, and consider the Theory of Evolution to be just natural selection.
This is my best worded argument against abortion I think I've written:
Abortion is murder. Murder in case where not killing will threaten you is called self- defense. I'm okay with that kind of abortion. Or, sometimes, abortion caused by rape. They shouldn't have to bear punishment for someone else's crime. But, other than that, it's not. Straw, you say that it's not a baby yet, or say it's only a 149/150 chance that it'll be born. First, I bet that's a world rate, including countries like Botswana and Thirdworldistan. But either way, if someone had shot Obama on November 5th and was charged with assassinating the President, I highly doubt that him saying, "He wasn't president yet. He still had three months to go. And anyway, there is a 1 in 150 chance that he would've died anyway! He could've got in a car crash or caught a terminal illness," would get him off the hook. But pro-abortionists say exactly that. If you're stuck with a baby before college, suck it up, that's what you get for having unprotected sex. And if you absolutely positively can't pay for a baby, it's called adoption. Look it up.
I got multi-ninja'd, but I will say one thing. Moses actually wrote the book of Genesis, way before the Babylonian exile.
While that interpretation of the theory of evolution is certainly incompatible, I tie that more to the Big Bang Theory, and consider the Theory of Evolution to be just natural selection.
This is my best worded argument against abortion I think I've written:
Abortion is murder. Murder in case where not killing will threaten you is called self- defense. I'm okay with that kind of abortion. Or, sometimes, abortion caused by rape. They shouldn't have to bear punishment for someone else's crime. But, other than that, it's not. Straw, you say that it's not a baby yet, or say it's only a 149/150 chance that it'll be born. First, I bet that's a world rate, including countries like Botswana and Thirdworldistan. But either way, if someone had shot Obama on November 5th and was charged with assassinating the President, I highly doubt that him saying, "He wasn't president yet. He still had three months to go. And anyway, there is a 1 in 150 chance that he would've died anyway! He could've got in a car crash or caught a terminal illness," would get him off the hook. But pro-abortionists say exactly that. If you're stuck with a baby before college, suck it up, that's what you get for having unprotected sex. And if you absolutely positively can't pay for a baby, it's called adoption. Look it up.
I got multi-ninja'd, but I will say one thing. Moses actually wrote the book of Genesis, way before the Babylonian exile.
Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
For the most part, being religious really doesn't make a difference in your life... unless yourself be influenced by its teachings. That is to say: letting your religious bias get in the way of reason (prime example: legalizing gay marriage/adoption or abortion). Religion should not be used as a reason for anything. If you can live your life peacefully and respectfully, agreeing to disagree with other people, then there's nothing wrong with believing in something.
Also, Flora:
Pro-choice! Pro-choice simply means believing that women should be able to make their own choice about whether or not to have an abortion if they so choose. Whether or not you personally would have an abortion has no bearing on whether or not you believe other women should be allowed to have an abortion. In the unlikely event that I ever got pregnant, there's only one or two situations that I can think of where I would let myself get an abortion, and I know that I wouldn't be as likely to have one for any given reason as other women. But it's not my choice what other women do with their bodies, and I know there are others who would rather have an abortion in a situation where I would keep the baby, so it's not my place to tell them "no you can't have an abortion".
For the most part, being religious really doesn't make a difference in your life... unless yourself be influenced by its teachings. That is to say: letting your religious bias get in the way of reason (prime example: legalizing gay marriage/adoption or abortion). Religion should not be used as a reason for anything. If you can live your life peacefully and respectfully, agreeing to disagree with other people, then there's nothing wrong with believing in something.
Also, Flora:
Pro-choice! Pro-choice simply means believing that women should be able to make their own choice about whether or not to have an abortion if they so choose. Whether or not you personally would have an abortion has no bearing on whether or not you believe other women should be allowed to have an abortion. In the unlikely event that I ever got pregnant, there's only one or two situations that I can think of where I would let myself get an abortion, and I know that I wouldn't be as likely to have one for any given reason as other women. But it's not my choice what other women do with their bodies, and I know there are others who would rather have an abortion in a situation where I would keep the baby, so it's not my place to tell them "no you can't have an abortion".
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Re: The to-be short lived theism thread
Well, the Bible, for one. Unless you are suggesting that god "guided" evolution or whatever but unfortunately that doesn't work either. Natural selection is a blind process.
You're perpetuating ignorance. The same ignorance which is responsible - though perhaps not in your case - for the atrocities I've been talking about.
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. - Exodus 22:19
Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death - Deuteronomy 17:2-5
There are not lots of different beliefs in atheism because atheism is not a belief. There are many other movements which overlap with atheism a lot - secularism, humanism - but instead of killing each other they sort out differences through discussion. That is the difference.
Pwnemon: wait, are you seriously suggesting human evolution is tied to the Big Bang, or am I missing something?
Also: if abortion is murder, miscarriage is manslaughter. That is clearly absurd. I invite you to look at the Abortion thread, though.
Well, the Bible, for one. Unless you are suggesting that god "guided" evolution or whatever but unfortunately that doesn't work either. Natural selection is a blind process.
You're perpetuating ignorance. The same ignorance which is responsible - though perhaps not in your case - for the atrocities I've been talking about.
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. - Exodus 22:19
Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death - Deuteronomy 17:2-5
There are not lots of different beliefs in atheism because atheism is not a belief. There are many other movements which overlap with atheism a lot - secularism, humanism - but instead of killing each other they sort out differences through discussion. That is the difference.
Pwnemon: wait, are you seriously suggesting human evolution is tied to the Big Bang, or am I missing something?
Also: if abortion is murder, miscarriage is manslaughter. That is clearly absurd. I invite you to look at the Abortion thread, though.