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Question Box

Eifie said:
Why is Brick Break's base energy 4% instead of 5% when it has a secondary effect? (Actually, I guess this applies for basically all the moves with secondary effects that aren't the usual stats-lowering/status-inducing... I always thought those should still count.)
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I made it 4% because I assumed "secondary effect" strictly meant stuff affected by Shield Dust/Sheer Force/Serene Grace/etc. Anything else feels inherent to the move to me... I mean, does Freeze-Dry have a side-effect? Grass Knot? False Swipe?

I totally might have it wrong though.

(That's also the distinction I had in mind behind "Does x" versus "Has a 100% chance to do x" for the record.)

EDIT: Apparently I had the wrong idea for Sheer Force and possibly Shield Dust in ASB anyway. Hmmmm.

Meursault said:
Suppose a Zubat (or anything with a similar evolution line) achieves the exp requirements to evolve into Golbat and the happiness requirements for Crobat in the same battle. Can it skip straight to being a Crobat, or must it battle as a Golbat first?
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Same kind of story; the db will let you because I assumed that was how it was supposed to work, but I might have been wrong. "Battle holding ____" is the only requirement you have to meet at a specific stage, I think.
 
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Personally I add 1% for all moves that have a secondary effect with more than 20% chance of occurring, including if it's 100% (ie. "does x"). I'd treat Freeze Dry's SE on water as a secondary effect, but for Grass Knot, for example, that's a way of determining BP and not really an added effect.
 
It wasn't really the 100% part that I was asking about, since clearly things like Icy Wind should have the 1% added, but like, Brick Break's thing is totally a secondary effect. So is Fly, Dig, etc.'s invulnerability, imo. Draining and never-miss... idk I guess. I think an increased crit rate should also be a secondary effect?
 
Yeah when I say 100% I also mean the secondary effect things. I add 1% for stuff like draining attacks, Brick Break, Etc. Etc. It makes sense that you need extra energy to do extra stuff.
 
Ugh, there's a bunch of questions I really need to actually address at some point... But just on the latest: I'm pretty sure the ol' D&E is outright explicit in that what causes an increase in energy cost is the same pool as that which is affected by Serene Grace, Sheer Force, et al.

(also, note that Freeze-Dry actually has a 10% chance to freeze on top of its extra super-effectiveness... no effect on the energy cost calculation, but like, it's there. and also, a fairly good example of why those things are called "secondary effects")
 
Metallica Fanboy said:
Ugh, there's a bunch of questions I really need to actually address at some point... But just on the latest: I'm pretty sure the ol' D&E is outright explicit in that what causes an increase in energy cost is the same pool as that which is affected by Serene Grace, Sheer Force, et al.
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But those were Negrek's old(er) guides, which are a nice guideline but by no means a concrete rule we have to abide by. If something doesn't make sense, like not adding extra energy for moves that have inherent always-occurring secondary effects, then we can and should change it.

re: Destiny Bond, I agree that it should only be able to deal damage less than or equal to the cap, and should be bound by the user's energy in that they can only deal as much damage as twice their remaining energy.
As for the base cost, it depends if we want to keep it as being in effect for the entire round, or only one action. Frankly I thought it was only an action and was surprised that it was for an entire round? The latter seems really powerful (a scenario that pops to mind is that it serves as a KO deterrent when attacking first, which can give you a ton of breathing room). Personally I'd prefer if it only affected one action, though I'd like to hear what others think.
 
If the winner of a limited-round battle doesn't actually score a KO, do they still get the extra experience?
 
Meursault said:
If the winner of a limited-round battle doesn't actually score a KO, do they still get the extra experience?
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If you're referring to one of the tournament battles, no EXP is awarded this round in any case since the Pokémon are rental and not kept by any trainer in the League.

As far as other such occasions go -- I'm inclined towards yes, but I'll have to go give it a check.
ETA: Confirmed that.
 
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Metallica Fanboy said:
If you're referring to one of the tournament battles, no EXP is awarded this round in any case since the Pokémon are rental and not kept by any trainer in the League.

As far as other such occasions go -- I'm inclined towards yes, but I'll have to go give it a check.
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Specifically in this battle, for reference.
 
blazheirio889 said:
re: Destiny Bond, I agree that it should only be able to deal damage less than or equal to the cap, and should be bound by the user's energy in that they can only deal as much damage as twice their remaining energy.
As for the base cost, it depends if we want to keep it as being in effect for the entire round, or only one action. Frankly I thought it was only an action and was surprised that it was for an entire round? The latter seems really powerful (a scenario that pops to mind is that it serves as a KO deterrent when attacking first, which can give you a ton of breathing room). Personally I'd prefer if it only affected one action, though I'd like to hear what others think.
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One action seems totally fair. As it stands, the other player can't really fully plan around it without wasting a round. It would be less broken to raise its priority (so one can predict it with "do X, but if you see them using Destiny Bond do Y") and make it cost (target's remaining HP)/2 regardless of success so it can't be spammed without energy-fainting the user.

Limiting it to the damage cap seems wise too, else a weakened Pokémon who finishes off its opponent could just use it on whatever gets sent out next and take it down from full health when it faints. (Hell, I recently reffed it taking down an opponent from 61% frigging health, which I feel the strongest urge to retcon but technically that's what the function of the move as it stands allows it to do). Traditional OHKO moves at least have appalling accuracy.
 
Metallica Fanboy said:
For all mechanical intents and purposes, they get a free Pokémon of the same species, not the exact same Pokémon.
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Awww. That's kind of a bummer, though! I don't know; it feels more like it's a consolation prize if you don't get the exp, rather than a 'congrats for participating in our event' thing. Even if it is kind of a consolation prize. And I mean, it starting with 1 exp because you used it in the rental battle isn't exactly OP, especially since later tourney rounds probably aren't rentals.
 
Maybe we could put a note about the battle limit in the first post of the Challenge Board?

(And I agree that the tournament dropouts should get the 1 EXP! Flavour-wise even, it seems a bit weird to give the losers a different, brand new Pokemon of the same species they just battled with.)
 
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