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Abortion

I realize that, but I was generalizing in saying that the time you would be LEAST prepared for a child is between 16-22.
 
Actually, 16-22 is the best age for a woman to have a child, biologically speaking.

I don't get what's with all the hate against teen mothers. If a girl's 16 (or 18 in the US) and has finished school, why can't she decide to have her own kid? Who are you to say if she's suitable or not? Odds are she's had much more experience with looking after siblings and probably has a lot of support from family and friends than a 35 year old woman having her first kid and getting all her information from textbooks.

Completeley deviating from the topic at hand, but I needed to say it.
 
Everybody just assumes that teenage (I'm talking 16+, as that's the subject) moms aren't responsible or suitable enough to be a mother? I'm sure plenty of them are. Just because they are a teenager makes no difference in their parenting skills, at least not every teenager.
 
The problem with teen parents is that it's more than likely they won't have the financial income to support raising a kid. Just because she can be there emotionally doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be a good life. Most high paying jobs that satisfy raising a kid require college degrees. That and the long hours means the first few years are pretty much spent at home. There's always a baby sitter, but not only can that get expensive, it means less time with the kid.
 
Dannichu said:
Actually, 16-22 is the best age for a woman to have a child, biologically speaking.

I don't get what's with all the hate against teen mothers. If a girl's 16 (or 18 in the US) and has finished school, why can't she decide to have her own kid? Who are you to say if she's suitable or not? Odds are she's had much more experience with looking after siblings and probably has a lot of support from family and friends than a 35 year old woman having her first kid and getting all her information from textbooks.

Completeley deviating from the topic at hand, but I needed to say it.
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Kind of a variation of what Valor said...but most children conceived during 16-18 years are accidents, meaning that she's usually not emotionally or financially ready for the child. A child is a HUGE responsibility and EXTREMELY expensive, and if she decides to keep the child when she's not ready for it (and if she, like most teen mothers in America, gets no support from her family and her boyfriend high-tails it out of there), her future is more or less doomed. And a girl right out of school isn't very likely to be very financially stable, either. Even baby-sitters cost a ton of money that she probably doesn't have, meaning less time to work, meaning...well, you get the idea.

I live in the part of America where I saw more pregnant girls at high school than anywhere else in my life, and that includes college campuses. A good number of these girls were actually looking forward to having babies, despite the fact that most of them had the emotional maturity of someone half their age. Almost all of them were just "OMG BABIES R KYOOT IM NOT GONNA KEEL IT."

Now, I have personally known successful teen mothers. But they were only so because they had a LOT of help from their families and a LOT of previous knowledge about children (My step-grandma had two kids by the time she was 18, and both of them grew up happy and well-adjusted). I have also known people who had a baby at 18 and the child pretty much makes her life miserable (this would be my step-mom).

Basically, if she's ready in every way to have a child, great. But know that most 16-18 year olds are not really ready for the insane amount of work and money it takes, and even if they think they're ready, they're probably not.
 
The problem with teen mothers isn't that they're young, exactly, it's more about who and what they are. Most teenage mothers tend to be less well educated and tend towards having a lower income etc. The problem is that they live off benefits and it's a vicious circle or something idk.

ALSO

Sometimes sex just happens. You went into the situation not planning to have sex and oh oops it happened.
 
I know, and I realize that teenagers aren't the highest earners in the world, but that doesn't mean that they're unsuitable and should abort if they get pregnant because if they have the kid, everyone concerned will end up miserable.

From stats I've looked at (mostly from the UK, admittedly), most teen mothers are from families where the mother wouldn't have gone onto higher education anyway, and the amount og family support they receive is very high. If you know you're not going to uni/college and probably won't ever have a massively-paying job, why should you wait till you're 25 or 30? And why do people judge you and your situation because of it?

I'm not saying that becoming a mother aged 16 is a good thing (or a bad thing); just that it isn't your place to say that because a girl gets pregnant, she needs to abort it, or it'll ruin her life.
 
So, what, teen parents should be given tons of free stuff because they're Aww-so-poor-people and don't have to do a damn thing about earning other money, yet families that are actually responsible enough to have enough money saved up and are able to plan the whole deal with time required as well as being capable of handling an emergency shouldn't even be cared about?

Bang up logic there.
 
Yup. What Valor said.

Basically, the problem is that most teen mommies are NOT ready in any way to have children and raise them responsibly, because most of their children are accidents and the reason some don't abort/adopt (which most do anyway because they're aware that being a teen mother is a bad idea) is because OMG BABIEZ R KYOOT. Most of the time, it's just another person below the poverty level and another child that has to grow up poor in an already overpopulated world.

Like I've said before, I'm not going to judge EVERYONE who is a pregnant teen, because I've seen people actually pull it off. But it's a pretty rare occurrence here in America, where most teen mothers either get kicked out of the house or their parents don't have enough money or time to spare. Remember, this is the land where our sex education is basically "IF YOU DO IT, YOU'LL MAKE GOD CRY SO DON'T DO IT MMKAY? ALSO, CONDOMS DON'T WORK.", so there are a LOT more pregnancies here.
 
Dannichu said:
I know, and I realize that teenagers aren't the highest earners in the world, but that doesn't mean that they're unsuitable and should abort if they get pregnant because if they have the kid, everyone concerned will end up miserable.

From stats I've looked at (mostly from the UK, admittedly), most teen mothers are from families where the mother wouldn't have gone onto higher education anyway, and the amount og family support they receive is very high. If you know you're not going to uni/college and probably won't ever have a massively-paying job, why should you wait till you're 25 or 30? And why do people judge you and your situation because of it?

I'm not saying that becoming a mother aged 16 is a good thing (or a bad thing); just that it isn't your place to say that because a girl gets pregnant, she needs to abort it, or it'll ruin her life.
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Oh, I know. I'm saying that it's still quite tragic when a teenage girl gets pregnant because she won't have the same life experiences other people her age will. I've seen it happen before and I'm currently watching it happen to some schoolmates of mine.

And your point about family support - yeah, that's great, but children shouldn't be having children. I'm most certainly not mature enough to look after a chil at the moment. It'd ruin my life, in truth.

I'm just saying that the children of teen parents often go on to become teen parents themselves and it's a vicious circle. Teen parents tend to be less well educated and they pass on an attitude of "Oh, school doesn't matter" etc to their children (even if they actively try to give them the opposite opinion) which in turn creates more teen parents who very often don't have jobs and live off benefits.

I'm not saying that she needs to abort it, I'm just saying that sometimes having a baby is not the right thing to do. Another thing is that while they won't go on to higher education, lots of them would do or have taken part in some of a vocational training programme which they then have to stop because they're pregnant.

also: pregnancy is icky :(
 
Valor said:
So, what, teen parents should be given tons of free stuff because they're Aww-so-poor-people and don't have to do a damn thing about earning other money, yet families that are actually responsible enough to have enough money saved up and are able to plan the whole deal with time required as well as being capable of handling an emergency shouldn't even be cared about?
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Would you rather see a teen mother trying to hold down a job or on the street, looking after a baby or a teen mother on family support who owns a small flat and can at least look after her baby? Why should people who already have money get more money anyway? Struggling families get family support because they're struggling families.

My mum had single parent support for about eight years when she had me. She worked her ass off during that time as well - don't assume that families who get family support are lazy and don't ever have to worry about income. If you'd been in the situation yourself you'd know it's very different.

It's a ridiculous stereotype and it's absolute bullshit, I'm sorry.


Skymin said:
Basically, the problem is that most teen mommies are NOT ready in any way to have children and raise them responsibly, because most of their children are accidents and the reason some don't abort/adopt (which most do anyway because they're aware that being a teen mother is a bad idea) is because OMG BABIEZ R KYOOT. Most of the time, it's just another person below the poverty level and another child that has to grow up poor in an already overpopulated world.
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Just because they're not ready to have kids doesn't mean they should be forced into abortion/adoption. Also how is this a reason against family support? If they're below the poverty level don't they need the support more than anybody?
And honestly, if the only reason you can think of for a teen mother not to abort is 'OMG BABIES R KYOOT' then really, put yourself in their shoes.


I'm all for abortion but automatically assuming every teen mother should abort is just stupid.
 
ultraviolet said:
Would you rather see a teen mother trying to hold down a job or on the street, looking after a baby or a teen mother on family support who owns a small flat and can at least look after her baby? Why should people who already have money get more money anyway? Struggling families get family support because they're struggling families.

My mum had single parent support for about eight years when she had me. She worked her ass off during that time as well - don't assume that families who get family support are lazy and don't ever have to worry about income. If you'd been in the situation yourself you'd know it's very different.

It's a ridiculous stereotype and it's absolute bullshit, I'm sorry.
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Hey, what's that going right over your head? Aww, it's my point.

If the teen parent chose to keep the kid, then they should have known the financial costs that come with raising a kid. Meanwhile, a couple that actually waited until mid 20's to have a kid will have to dish out a lot of their hard earned money, not to mention one parent having to give up a job for a while, crippling their income source lest the job has maternal leave. And for the record, children of teen parents just KIND OF have a hard time affording college.

And let's not get started on the stress that comes early. For God's sake, just because a kid is capable of having a kid doesn't mean their mind is ready for it. What if the child hates their parents for providing a poor upbringing? What if they go hang with the wrong crowd?

And, oh, hey, my parents have been divorced for, hmm, 16 years now? So, I've lived in a single parent household for probably a longer time. Amazing how my mother could afford a small, cozy, two story house and provide for her two sons who are now adults off of her job. Maybe it's because she worked hard at her job and waited to have children of her own? How about that. And child support hasn't really helped, so try not to bring that point up.
 
Why the hell are you assuming that simply because it often is a bad idea that it'd always be a bad idea?


People have difficulty grasping the amount of time, energy, money, and effort that's required to raise a child. What the fuck is the problem with helping people who're trying to do all they can?


Quips about missing the point are stupid when it seems that it could apply to you as well. :|
 
ultraviolet said:
Just because they're not ready to have kids doesn't mean they should be forced into abortion/adoption. Also how is this a reason against family support? If they're below the poverty level don't they need the support more than anybody?
And honestly, if the only reason you can think of for a teen mother not to abort is 'OMG BABIES R KYOOT' then really, put yourself in their shoes.


I'm all for abortion but automatically assuming every teen mother should abort is just stupid.
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*Face. Fucking. Palm.*

That is NOT what I said. Nowhere in my post did I say that teen mothers should be FORCED into abortion/adoption. NOWHERE. And NOWHERE in my post did I say that I was against family support. NO. WHERE. Did you even READ the second half of that post?

I'm just saying that from my observation and statistics, MOST teen mothers are NOT financially stable, NOT emotionally ready, and don't have the responsibility to properly raise a child, because more often than not, the child was unplanned. If they DO get family support and are actually ready, THAT IS FINE. There isn't a problem. I've seen it work out multiple times myself, as I'm saying for the third time. If they do decide to keep the baby, OF COURSE THEY SHOULD GET HELP. I'm just saying that for most people, it's a bad idea that shouldn't be encouraged unless being a mother as soon as possible is what the person has their entire heart set on. I do think Valor carried the point a little too far, but I still agree for the most part. They should be helped, but not to the point where irresponsibility is completely fostered.

I'll repeat: If a teen mom IS completely ready and has everything sorted out to have a kid, that's FINE. But the vast majority of the time, this is NOT the case. If she gets family support, that's FINE, TOO. But MOST (read: Not ALL) of the time, a teen doesn't have her act together and isn't ready to take on motherhood.

And yeah, I was in the wrong with the "BABIEZ R KYOOT" line. I know it's harder to abort/adopt than just that line of reasoning.Of course, if I found myself pregnant, I'd be running for the nearest abortion clinic as soon as possible, but that's just me.
 
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I don't see how any of this discussion is relevant because 'pro abortion' is not actually a stance, and whether abortion is a good idea or not is a completely invalid point. The fact remains that nobody should care whether the abortion is a good or bad idea. If abortions are made legal, and you think the practice is wrong, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from not aborting any children. If it is kept illegal in certain cases/countries, then you are giving no benefit to those who wish to keep the child, and giving the government more right to the body of a woman than the woman herself. I think a law giving more freedom with no penalties other than making morally righteous people offended is a truly excellent law indeed.

Preemptive strike against anyone saying anything along the lines of 'the baby doesn't get a choice' 'it is murder' etc.: I don't have an extensive knowledge of the terminology of pregnancy; so sue me. Assuming the mother is so dim witted as to have waited until the baby is almost fully developed to decide on an abortion, this may be the only case as to which it should not be allowed. This is indeed simply killing the unborn in the womb, as to waiting until it comes out. However, a fetus (or not-ready-to-be-born whatever stage you call it, something that cannot live outside of the womb, which is pretty much most of the pregnancy) does not have any rights and can be aborted. If you really want to be legally gritty, I do not think that (in america or england, but I don't know the absolute for either one) an undeveloped human has citizenship by the fact that wherever it is born is the matter, not where the fetus gestates. Either way, you do not get to decide for the other women who want to have said underdeveloped quasi-human growing inside them any longer.
 
It's a fricking debate, we argue our points for the pure sake of argument. It is supposed to be sort of a friendly competition. Don't get your panties all in a bunch because we believe in sport debating.
 
No, the parents of the child that is to be aborted. (This is, if the father is involved, otherwise it's just the mother)
 
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