Dannichu
Tragically unbeyachted.
Aww, that's not fair. I've not talked to lots of adults who're messed up because of their childhoods, and I live with friends who influence my opinions.
And I'm really, really old.
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Child Discipline
- Thread starter Phantom
- Start date
Aww, that's not fair. I've not talked to lots of adults who're messed up because of their childhoods, and I live with friends who influence my opinions.
And I'm really, really old.
Minish
*
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- they
Sure! But when you're twelve, you're way more likely to be that, I feel! And I'd argue that since you've been around a university lots with many other adults, you've still been waaay more exposed to their lives, right?
As for your friends, they don't have parent-child power relations with you, which are a different story. Obviously you're majorly influenced by pretty much everyone around you throughout your entire life. But parents are actively encouraged to completely influence you - and I don't think your friends engage in physical 'friend discipline' for your own good. It's just such a messed-up dynamic.
12 year-olds can definitely still be pretty aware about the world. But they're pretty rare, and I still see being 12 years old as an alarm with this kind of mindset.
As for your friends, they don't have parent-child power relations with you, which are a different story. Obviously you're majorly influenced by pretty much everyone around you throughout your entire life. But parents are actively encouraged to completely influence you - and I don't think your friends engage in physical 'friend discipline' for your own good. It's just such a messed-up dynamic.
12 year-olds can definitely still be pretty aware about the world. But they're pretty rare, and I still see being 12 years old as an alarm with this kind of mindset.
kyeugh
onion witch
- Pronoun
- she/her
Hmm, lemme think.
Oh yeah, I remember! That's child abuse. People do not die from a few smacks on the butt or hands or whatever. That is not fatal. That is not lethal. It is discipline. I love how this world is so confused with child discipline and absuse.
"oh no I'm scarred for life please help me"
Congrats. Then obviously your parents didn't really get the whole, "child discipline," concept. If it scars you for life, then it's not really child discipline. That's just... a whole nother, jacked up ball game. Child discipline is a few hits to set someone straight. It is not consistently beating the hell out of your child until they are scarred for life.
where's the line. some parents beat their kids and still think it's discipline. some parents DON'T MEAN FOR THEIR KIDS TO DIE WHEN THEY THINK THEY'RE DISCIPLINING THEM.
which is why nobody should do discipline
also you really don't have room to be saying what is and isn't discipline when obviously you've only been through one childhood with one set of parents. how about you not assume things about other people's lives?
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Minish
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- they
And when whole hosts of people here have said 'a few hits to set someone straight' has 'scarred them for life', you're telling them to get over it. You can't keep redefining this until nobody has a problem with it; why not actually face the problem that all kids are different and well-meaning parents often don't realise that?
kyeugh
onion witch
- Pronoun
- she/her
CloudCat
It's a very, very mad world
Well, in my opinion, I would never spank my children, but it doesn't mean that it's horrible to spank them. As long as the punishment fits the offense. And maybe the only way the child will learn is through spanking. It depends on the child. Also, I think that part of the reason why you disagree with Mohacastle and I is because of our age. If we were both 20, I'm sure you would be more willing to attempt to agree with our opinions. But since you guys are 18 and 19, you feel as if you are correct no matter what, because you guys are older.
What defines a "fitting" offense?
What I learnt from being spanked: my parents are jerks. Stay away from them.
Really, it's ... kind of the other way around here. Some of us are actually college-educated adults, you know? There is a very wide experience gap -- if you were 20, I would think you are even more wrong.
CloudCat
It's a very, very mad world
Well, I do see your point in the last sentence... And by an offence that deserves a spank, it basically means anything that if you, as a parent, think your child won't learn their lesson by a simple grounding. But this is only my opinion. I am, afterall, only 12, and my opinion is subject to change. I am sorry that I infuriated you so badly before.
shy ♡
whispers in gay
Okay, two things. First, I really don't think we need to bring ageism into this. Experience and age are not the same, and really, you can have just as valid an opinion at 12 as at any other age. I know I would be infuriated if someone ignored or invalidated my opinion just because of my age (and I was, when people did). In fact, that exact tactic is often used against children who are being abused, because they're children so they supposedly don't know as much as the adults that are hitting them.
That said, child discipline is child abuse. There literally is no difference. Calling it something else is misleading. If the child isn't learning their 'lesson' by grounding them, why don't you try something else other than abusing them? Grounding isn't exactly the end-all of punishments (and it isn't really a brilliant one to begin with, so it's no wonder the kid isn't learning).
Do you ever think hitting someone your own age is justified (other than self-defense)? If not, why do you think it's ok to hit someone who is dependent on you for literally everything?
That said, child discipline is child abuse. There literally is no difference. Calling it something else is misleading. If the child isn't learning their 'lesson' by grounding them, why don't you try something else other than abusing them? Grounding isn't exactly the end-all of punishments (and it isn't really a brilliant one to begin with, so it's no wonder the kid isn't learning).
Do you ever think hitting someone your own age is justified (other than self-defense)? If not, why do you think it's ok to hit someone who is dependent on you for literally everything?
... except I'm not ignoring her opinion, and 12-year-olds are extremely unlikely to have children, have peers with children, or regularly babysit (outside of younger siblings). Experience was a poor choice of words, agreed, but I still have to say the topic inherently lends little weight to her argument.
Not to mention plenty of parents skip grounding altogether.
CloudCat
It's a very, very mad world
:D I'm glad you adressed the ageism that is going on, Pathos. And upon seeing your reasoning, I totally agree with you. With that, now, if grounding isn't a great punishment (which is true, when I get grounded, I am more angry than being taught a lesson. Plus, half the time, I do something bad and know it's bad before I do it, but I do it anyways XD) then what is an appropriate form of punishment?
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shy ♡
whispers in gay
There are many other options. Personally I dislike the idea of punishment to begin with. If the person knows what they're doing is wrong and why it's wrong, they're less likely to do it because of that - not because of possible consequences. If you know it's bad and do it anyway, you have to deal with those consequences on your own.
I think the question is - do you want to punish or teach? Both actions will inherently teach something, of course... but choosing to teach gives your kid better tools to deal with life, in the long run, than what they'd learn from you hitting them.
CloudCat
It's a very, very mad world
Yes, but knowing some people, they will often do something thay know is wrong, and if they don't get punished for doing it, they will continue to do so. With small children, you can sit them down, and discuss how what they did is wrong, and then set them free without punishment, but what about older kids? A 15 year old (especially if they are rebellious) will take advantage of not being punished for their actions, and will continue doing things that are wrong.
shy ♡
whispers in gay
There are multiple problems with that, most prominent being that you're suggesting a parent hit a 15 year old. I don't think it would even work at that age - I mean, at that point the kid would defend themselves.
The other problem being you're ignoring all the teaching that preceded those 15 years. The 15 year old wouldn't be doing things they knew were wrong, and if they did, they wouldn't care what their parent did about it. Punishment doesn't get results because it only stops the behavior you know about. It doesn't change the other person's mind, so they don't stop doing it when you're not there.
If they're doing something wrong when they're 15, they're capable of understanding whatever is wrong about it. You can tell them why it's wrong and all possible consequences.
Dannichu
Tragically unbeyachted.
If anything, I'd argue that child discipline is more relevant the younger a kid is, because you can't reason with really small kids and explain why they shouldn't be doing what they're doing. Especially if what they're doing isn't morally wrong (stealing/fighting/etc.) but is just stupid stuff that's likely to massively endanger themselves.
I'm not advocating hitting or anything here, but I don't think that rational explaining works with exceptionally stupid kids with absolutely no self-preservation (like past-Dannichu, whose crowning moments include eating rat poison and putting her hand on a glass-fronted furnace), either.
I'm not advocating hitting or anything here, but I don't think that rational explaining works with exceptionally stupid kids with absolutely no self-preservation (like past-Dannichu, whose crowning moments include eating rat poison and putting her hand on a glass-fronted furnace), either.
shy ♡
whispers in gay
... Ok, but the only other option is not hitting them. Generally you just stop them from doing those things, and if a punishment is really necessary you go with the minimal of punishments ('go to your room', 'sit on the stairs'). My brother was like that and I don't see how hitting him would have helped at all.
Scootaloo
spooky? do you think i'm spooky?
Mom sometimes freaks out if i "talk back to her" and she'll just say she doesn't want to see my face for the rest of the day
what is a fitting definition of "talking back to someone"
is it like the tone of the voice? or what you say? (i'll say 'okay' everytime mom asks me to do something multiple times [i.e moving my clothes to the hamper, she asked about three times, I said 'okay', she thought I was talking back to her])
what is a fitting definition of "talking back to someone"
is it like the tone of the voice? or what you say? (i'll say 'okay' everytime mom asks me to do something multiple times [i.e moving my clothes to the hamper, she asked about three times, I said 'okay', she thought I was talking back to her])
CloudCat
It's a very, very mad world
"Talking back" to someone usually means arguing with someone, or speaking to them with a sneer or mocking tone of voice. However, spme parents depict talking back to them differently.
And with that, I'm done with pissing people off on this thread. I have argued my point, and been persuaded to another point, so now, I shall leave this thread to wreak havoc on another. Ta-ta!
And with that, I'm done with pissing people off on this thread. I have argued my point, and been persuaded to another point, so now, I shall leave this thread to wreak havoc on another. Ta-ta!
Aisling
Super Moderator
I think it depends on the parent. My dad's definition of talking back seems to range from asking why to telling him to stop doing something to you. In other words, just questioning his authority.