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Ground Zero Mosque

Pwnemon said:
It is a Muslim cultural center which INCLUDES a "worship area," read mosque. You lose sir.
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Actually, it's a community center with a mosque. A thirteen story community center with one floor dedicated to a mosque. So, you lose, sir.

In APUSH last week we had to analyze a few political cartoons, one of them being this one. (if you don't understand it, it's basically saying that generally all anti-mosque arguments are "we don't want the people responsible for destroying the Twin Towers to build a mosque two blocks away, or anywhere for that matter." And yes, anywhere. Have you heard about mosques, whether already existing or in the process of being built, getting hate mail just for being a mosque?) In analyzing it, I have to agree: how many pro-mosque arguments have we (here or anywhere) come up with? A heck of a lot.

How many anti-mosque arguments have we (again, here or anywhere) come up with? Basically one, since they all basically boil down to "We don't want a mosque here because it's a mosque." Even though, as res said, it can barely be classified as a mosque.

@everyone saying that it shouldn't be built: Did you ever think about how it would help the area? Its primary use is that of a community center, which would certainly enrich Manhattan. Denying the area something that would help them because of a side effect that isn't even nearly harmful doesn't really make sense.
 
Having a mosque in your building =/= your building being a mosque.

You keep talking as if the whole building is a mosque, which it most certainly is not. 12/13 of the thirteen story building is a community center.

res and I were saying that the building itself isn't a mosque, which you seem to be misinterpreting.
 
I'm not saying it IS a mosque. But there is most certainly a mosque there.

If a bomb is stored in a vault it most certainly is ONLY a vault and not at all harmful.
 
Pwnemon said:
If a bomb is stored in a vault it most certainly is ONLY a vault and not at all harmful.
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...do you even realize how offensive that is? I'm 90% sure that there's at least one Muslim member here (Pikachu, IIRC) and that is a fantastic way to make them hate you. Plus, comparing a mosque in a community center to a bomb in a vault isn't even a valid comparison.
 
Every time you tell someone that the building you object to is a ground-zero mosque you are lying. It's easier to get people all offended when you portray the building as an Allah-skyscraper built over a pile of smoldering corpses and funded by the fringe group behind the attacks, but you know this is not the case. "BUT BUT FLOOR 5 OUT OF 13 WILL HAVE PEOPLE PRAYING ON IT" doesn't makes the whole thing a big o'l Muslim church

Why do you care anyway, though? it has been abundantly established that the faction behind the 9/11 attacks is not the same force behind this building

Unless your argument is either "you are wrong; the same subgroup within Islam is responsible" or "They're all Muslims, they are all responsible for each others actions despite having nothing to do with each other" then I don't see what you're trying to get at.

People who have not actually wronged anyone don't need to cater to bullshit about what they should or should not do in order to please you

I'm pretty sure you'll tell me that I am misunderstanding you. I implore you to explain how.
 
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opaltiger said:
Also, it is neither a mosque nor at Ground Zero, so I think we should start calling it something else.
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It's baffling how the media would rather refer to it as ground zero mosque (or if they're opposed to it, they'll put quotation marks around it!) instead of Park51. Although it's not baffling, because the media is quite dickish.

Pwnemon said:
I'm not saying it IS a mosque. But there is most certainly a mosque there.

If a bomb is stored in a vault it most certainly is ONLY a vault and not at all harmful.
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wait wait what

who compares bombs to mosques
 
Pentimento it isn't even about his manner :B

He recognizes that there are extreme fringe groups in his own faith (the Westboro Baptists are a prominent example of one), and it's sufficient for him to acknowledge that the views of the WBC are atrocious and are not the views he holds. This is what is the case for pretty much every Christian.

Some of my friends are Jews. If some Jews starts killing people who have curly hair and wear glasses, I'm not going to expect my friends to be all meek and apologetic and have them promise not to kill me cause someone Jew did something they had nothing to do with.

He is advocating holding Muslims to a different standard than he holds for himself -- one where they must apologize for the actions of people who are and were completely unrelated to them in every single way -- and I'd really like to hear why.
 
NWT said:
He is advocating holding Muslims to a different standard than he holds for himself -- one where they must apologize for the actions of people who are and were completely unrelated to them in every single way -- and I'd really like to hear why.
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This reminds me: I was reading the editorials in a local newspaper and someone said that we wouldn't have this "buring the Quran" problem if moderate Muslims would just apologize. Which makes absolutely no sense.
 
moderate muslims should not apologise

but it is dumb to build the mcc there because obviously they knew it would generate bullshit like this
 
Pwnemon said:
I'm not saying it IS a mosque. But there is most certainly a mosque there.
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the more pressing issue being who cares. You've already accepted that one muslim extremist doesn't define muslims as a whole, just as one extremist tea partier or christian doesn't define them all. you're going nowhere with this argument, and you're only serving to be really fricking offensive like you are in most controversial thread topics.
 
I'm just going to bust into this convo because I really don't understand this, haha. It's such a non-issue ?_? isn't there anything better to complain about? I don't know any other country who would make such a mountain out of a molehill.

Or am I just blasé because I live in Europe where we have a whole lot of muslims walking about and I'm used to Islam or what.

I understand that some people might be offended but only because they're looking for malevolent intentions where there are none
 
Vladimir Putin's LJ said:
I'm just going to bust into this convo because I really don't understand this, haha. It's such a non-issue ?_? isn't there anything better to complain about? I don't know any other country who would make such a mountain out of a molehill.

Or am I just blasé because I live in Europe where we have a whole lot of muslims walking about and I'm used to Islam or what.

I understand that some people might be offended but only because they're looking for malevolent intentions where there are none
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I keep wanting to cite Wilders then remember your connections are to Belgium, not the Netherlands. :( Now I can't guilt trip your national identity.

Incidentally, at the protest rally on the 11th, the protesters decided an excellent way to demonstrate their stance was to drag two deactivated missiles around. No, seriously.
 
My dad is Dutch, yes, but since I only share 1/2 of Wilders' nationality I assume it makes me 1/2 racist only.
In Belgium we have slightly less problems with troublesome arab teens because no prominent politician/guy has been killed yet (like Theo Van Gogh) which is nice. Of course you have great parties like the Vlaams Belang who milk any crime stats to the max but even they are not really popular outside some Flemmish communities (and I am fairly certain most Flemmish people dislike them too).

Wilders is a pretty cool guy, he condones koran burnings and isn't afraid of looking like he fell head-first into a bucket of industrial-strength bleach. I wish Pim Fortuyn hadn't been shot so at least the right-wing superstar wouldn't be so uncharismatic and terrible
 
I am full Dutch, but I visit Brussels like twice every month... sometimes more, sometimes less.

Does it count as Belgian if I pretend to just hang out there every once in a while :x
 
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