Ground Zero Mosque

[1. Luftballon]

furthermore, since they were all in motion, the area ought to be a motion-free zone.

 

[Karkat Vantas]

furthermore, since they were all in motion, the area ought to be a motion-free zone.

Does this include movement on vehicles, ie biking?

 

[Pwnemon]

They're hurtful and bitter, and use sarcasm rather than logic to attack others' comments. When someone posts a completely sensible comment with nothing for him to snark at, he will ignore it completely and go find someone else's comment to make fun of.

Now while I know Vixie didn't post up there, I just wanted to use this quote to describe you two, Sreservoir and Dannichu.

As you can tell, I was unbanned. Woot.

 

[Aisling]

Explain how what you're implying to be ignoring-sensible-comments-snark from sreservoir and Dannichu makes any less sense than

Well, the difference between a porn shop and a mosque is that pornographers didn't crash into the WTC. Just sayin'.

because frankly it's not sensible.

 

[hopeandjoy]

Dannichu

They're hurtful and bitter, and use sarcasm rather than logic to attack others' comments. When someone posts a completely sensible comment with nothing for him to snark at, he will ignore it completely and go find someone else's comment to make fun of.

Does not compute.

 

[Pwnemon]

I was responding to a comment. And actually, it makes sense when you consider to what I replied.

I am not saying them personally. Ever since 9/11 people have targeted them with a cruel hatred that was never truly deserved. Not allowing them to build a place of worship is against their rights. True I have no religion myself, but I refuse to hate someone because of their religion. I can say I dislike some of their beliefs, but that doesn't mean I should hate someone as a person. Have many of you ever been to Ground Zero? There is a porn shop and a strip club across the street. And you oppose a Mosque from being built two blocks away? How is that any sort of honor to the memory of those lost?

And, now that I think about it, I would like to know when the porn shop was built. Pre 9/11?

 

[Aisling]

Oh, well, I missed what you were replying to, but either way, again, the radical Muslims that did WTC are not the Muslims building the mosque, or the ones who will be attending it once it's done. We've had an actual Muslim in here to attest to the fact that most Muslims were in fact not celebrating.

Just because a building got destroyed there doesn't mean it's holy ground. The normal thing is to build more stuff on it. Maybe have a memorial there or something, but it's a waste to avoid building around it altogether. If we avoided building anything on a place where a building was destroyed and people died, well... we'd have a lot less construction going on. You've pretty much failed to give a reason to not build the mosque beyond "they're Muslims", and it's been gone over several times why that's a dumbassed reason.

edit: also why does it matter when the porn shop was built? I guess from that I can assume you hate porn too, for some silly reason

 

[Flora]

Alright, I'm just gonna input something quite important into this discussion:

The Bill of Rights definitely includes "freedom of religion." Wouldn't denying Muslims the right to build the mosque there be infringing on this right?

 

[Pwnemon]

Hm, in one respect, you're right. The radicals who crashed into the WTC are NOT normal moderate muslims.

But as to the fact that they aren't like the guy building the mosque, I have to differ. He, 19 days after 9/11, said that the US was "an accessory to the crime that happened." And, on the same day, that Usama Bin Laden was "Made in the USA."

Furthermore, he has said that what most muslims want is courts that don't have any laws in opposition to Shariah law, and he wants America to be "Shariah Compliant." He has refused to condemn Hamas or Hezbollah as terrorist organizations, and won't reveal his funding when people ask.

Moderate muslim? Your choice for you, but I don't think so.

EDIT: Crud ninjad. Of course, there is absolutely no debate. The muslims are perfectly able and permitted to build it there. But it isn't the right thing to do.

 

[Aisling]

Can you cite those quotes? And why does it actually matter? It's not going to kill anyone and it's not going to send the US into terrorist turmoil. It's going to be a mosque like any other innocuous mosque. The only difference will be that it's kind of close to a building some extremists destroyed nine years ago. Nothing bad is going to be going on in there, just some people practicing the religion they have every right to. The bottom line is people need to realize that not all Muslims want to blow up everyone who isn't a Muslim and get over it.

 

[hopeandjoy]

But as to the fact that they aren't like the guy building the mosque, I have to differ. He, 19 days after 9/11, said that the US was "an accessory to the crime that happened." And, on the same day, that Usama Bin Laden was "Made in the USA."

I knew you would pull that out sometime.

Have some Jon Stewart (part starts at 2:40 or so)!

You know, it's funny when the fake journalists can be more trusted than the real ones. Oh, Glen Beck. Never change.

 

[#1 bro]

I like how this is the biggest issue in america right now. People are so fucking retarded sometimes honestly. Stop caring about dumb bullshit that doesn't matter

 

[Pwnemon]

Excuse my grammar Naziism, but I just wanted to say that Glenn Beck is spelled with TWO N's. Seen that mistake a lot here.

Secondly, and now I will get on to the argument, he never said that we were an accessory to 9/11. He said he started paying attention to politics after that. He said that we weren't minding our own business. But the two are not inherently connected. In case you aren't a regular watcher, which I know you aren't, he says he started paying attention after (Insert topic here) almost every other show, and it usually doesn't make sense to what he says next.

 

[Flora]

He, 19 days after 9/11, said that the US was "an accessory to the crime that happened."

he never said that we were an accessory to 9/11.

?

Of course, there is absolutely no debate. The muslims are perfectly able and permitted to build it there. But it isn't the right thing to do.

Who are you to decide whether or not it's "right" to build it there?

Unless God came to you in a dream and was all "them evil Muslims will go to HELL if they build that mosque there," that is certainly not your decision to make.

 

[Pwnemon]

First he= Mosque leader.

Second He= Beck

I did decide whether or not it's right to build there. It has absofreakinglutely no bearing on whether they can build there, but I did it. You obviously did too, and decided it is right to build there. Again, it has no bearing, but you did.

 

[hopeandjoy]

Exactly. Beck, like the guy funding this mosque, is claiming that we did, in fact, provoke the extremists. This doesn't mean that it's in any way, shape, or form okay, but that's all he was saying.

 

[Flora]

First he= Mosque leader.

Second He= Beck

Oh, alright. Somehow got confused there.

I did decide whether or not it's right to build there. It has absofreakinglutely no bearing on whether they can build there, but I did it. You obviously did too, and decided it is right to build there. Again, it has no bearing, but you did.

Firstly, this isn't even a question of "right and wrong." It's just paranoid America being ridiculously paranoid as usual. It's stupid McCarthyism all over again; persecuting innocent people simply because we're paranoid.

Secondly, I didn't imply that it was right or wrong. I simply said that they have the right to build there. As I said, this isn't a question of right and wrong.

 

[RespectTheBlade]

My personal view on the mosque is this

1. Most importantly Not all muslims are terrorists, and (even though I am not muslim, nor do I have any muslim friends or relatives) I resent the people who think so.

2. The terrorists that destroyed the Twin Towers were muslim.

3. I believe it is disrespectful to the 2000+ lives that were lost to set up a building which worships the religion of these terrorists so close to the place where this tragic event occured. This has nothing to do with the Muslim religion. it has to do with the particular individuals who destroyed the Twin Towers. If the particular terrorists were, say, christian/catholic, I would be opposed to the building of a church. If anything ,a building should be set up to honor the lives of the people who died because of this tragic incident, like a memorial or even a large wall with the names of the people who died.

 

[Adriane]

3. I believe it is disrespectful to the 2000+ lives that were lost to set up a building which worships the religion of these terrorists so close to the place where this tragic event occured. This has nothing to do with the Muslim religion.

Yes, precisely; and the mosque has nothing to do with the terrorists. You are contradicting yourself.

If the particular terrorists were, say, christian/catholic, I would be opposed to the building of a church. If anything ,a building should be set up to honor the lives of the people who died because of this tragic incident, like a memorial or even a large wall with the names of the people who died.

Two blocks down?

 

[Zuu]

If the particular terrorists were, say, christian/catholic, I would be opposed to the building of a church.

I really really doubt that.