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Ground Zero Mosque

...

As an English person, I know I'm going to come off harsh. But why is America still upset about 9/11?

The point of a terrorist attack from my understanding was to spread fear and impact everyday life with their actions. The way America has reacted to the attacks is exactly how the terrorists wanted their actions to be received. Fear of the Islamic religion appears to be widespread across the states and every year, time is taken out of the day to remember their actions.

And please, before I get slammed - England has suffered terrorist attacks before. The 6/6 bombings in the London Underground being one of the most recent that comes to mind. But we don't remember the event. The next day people were getting back onto the trains. Life just carried on.

It just mystifies me the way America has reacted to it and is still bringing it up...I don't mean to sound insensitive or cause offense.
 
...

As an English person, I know I'm going to come off harsh. But why is America still upset about 9/11?

The point of a terrorist attack from my understanding was to spread fear and impact everyday life with their actions. The way America has reacted to the attacks is exactly how the terrorists wanted their actions to be received. Fear of the Islamic religion appears to be widespread across the states and every year, time is taken out of the day to remember their actions.

And please, before I get slammed - England has suffered terrorist attacks before. The 6/6 bombings in the London Underground being one of the most recent that comes to mind. But we don't remember the event. The next day people were getting back onto the trains. Life just carried on.

It just mystifies me the way America has reacted to it and is still bringing it up...I don't mean to sound insensitive or cause offense.

Brian: Peter, you do realize there's a difference between loving America and being swept up in post-9/11 paranoia.
Peter: Brian, are you suggesting that 9/11 didn't change everything?
Brian: What? No, I was just...
Peter: 'Cause 9/11 changed everything, Brian! 9/11 changed everything!
Brian: Peter, you didn't even know what 9/11 was until 2004.
 
Now while I know Vixie didn't post up there, I just wanted to use this quote to describe you two, Sreservoir and Dannichu.

As you can tell, I was unbanned. Woot.

I was responding to a comment. And actually, it makes sense when you consider to what I replied.

Actually, when you consider what you replied to, it makes less sense because while Dannichu and sreservoir were being snarky, they were making valid points. The terrorists were Muslim, which is why you oppose a mosque. By the same token, they were straight, male in motion, so the area around Ground Zero should become a stationary lesbian commune.

Hm, in one respect, you're right. The radicals who crashed into the WTC are NOT normal moderate muslims.

But as to the fact that they aren't like the guy building the mosque, I have to differ. He, 19 days after 9/11, said that the US was "an accessory to the crime that happened." And, on the same day, that Usama Bin Laden was "Made in the USA."

Well, frankly, the US was "an accessory to the crime that happened". And I don't see what's so significant about the amount of days it took him to say it, not everyone in the world is going to censor their opinions for the benefit of America.

Furthermore, he has said that what most muslims want is courts that don't have any laws in opposition to Shariah law, and he wants America to be "Shariah Compliant." He has refused to condemn Hamas or Hezbollah as terrorist organizations, and won't reveal his funding when people ask.

Moderate muslim? Your choice for you, but I don't think so.

Yes, because by building a mosque and cultural center in NYC, this guy is going to convert America to Shariah law. How didn't I see this before.

And seriously, has it occurred to you that the reason "he has refused to condemn Hamas or Hezbollah as terrorist organisations" is because not everybody in the world falls into line with the American opinion that they are terrorist organisations?

Did you even know that both Hamas and Hezbollah formed as militias to defend their home country from Israeli invasion? Did you know that both are heavily involved in social development and that they are legitimate political entities within their home states, with Hamas as the majority in Palestine and Hezbollah holding 11 of 30 cabinet seats in Lebanon? Did you know that in 2008, Hezbollah members reclaimed areas of Lebanon taken over by another militia and then immediately handed them over to the Lebanese Army? And did you know that the "military wing" of Hamas is actually an independent militia who not only act autonomously but often against Hamas policy?

Personally, I don't think Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organisations because I believe their goals are legitimate. I don't condone their killing of civilians, but the US has killed more civilians in the "War on Terror" than either Hamas or Hezbollah, or quite possibly the two of them combined, and the US's goals are about as legitimate as the presidency of Robert Mugabe.

EDIT: Crud ninjad. Of course, there is absolutely no debate. The muslims are perfectly able and permitted to build it there. But it isn't the right thing to do.

According to you, but you have yet to give a legitimate reason as to why it isn't the right thing to do.

Secondly, and now I will get on to the argument, he never said that we were an accessory to 9/11. He said he started paying attention to politics after that. He said that we weren't minding our own business. But the two are not inherently connected. In case you aren't a regular watcher, which I know you aren't, he says he started paying attention after (Insert topic here) almost every other show, and it usually doesn't make sense to what he says next.

Glenn Beck said that the US wasn't minding it's own business and as a result the 9/11 attacks happened. Therefore, Glenn Beck says that the US did something which provoked the 9/11 attacks. Therefore, Glenn Beck says that the US is at least partially to blame for the 9/11 attacks ergo the US is an accessory to 9/11.

As an English person, I know I'm going to come off harsh. But why is America still upset about 9/11?

It's simple really. The American ego had a hole punched in it. After the collapse of the USSR, the USA remained as the only global "superpower" and it came to think it was invincible. After all, it outlasted the USSR. But then several known terrorists hijacked plans and initiated a symbolically devestating attack on the US. It's easy to see, given the targets, that this was supposed to be an attack on the American ego and sense of security, in other words, a terrorist attack in the most basic sense of the word. They attacked their wealth and monetary power (The Twin Towers), they attacked their security and intelligence (The Pentagon) and they were on the way to attacking their ultimate symbol of political sovereignty (The White House) before they were overpowered. America is suffering from wounded pride and paranoia and, of course, as with all of America's temper tantrums, the whole world is suffering as result.
 
I believe it is disrespectful to the 3000+ lives that were lost to set up a building which worships the religion of these terrorists so close to the place where this tragic event occured. This has nothing to do with the Muslim religion. it has to do with the particular individuals who destroyed the Twin Towers. If the particular terrorists were, say, christian/catholic, I would be opposed to the building of a church. If anything ,a building should be set up to honor the lives of the people who died because of this tragic incident, like a memorial or even a large wall with the names of the people who died.

Quoted for the intense amount of truth that I wish I was eloquent enough to get out in one paragraph.

EDIT: Teh Ebil Snorlax, they were actually going for the Capitol Building. Which would have shut our country down, not busted our ego.
 
Quoted for the intense amount of truth that I wish I was eloquent enough to get out in one paragraph.
The "intense amount of truth"? He's not even making any sense. If this has nothing to do with Islam, what's the problem with building a mosque?
 
Because you have to realize that three thousand families lost people to the attacks of 9/11 and it would definitely offend those families by building a building associated with the people who attacked the towers.
 
stupid paragraph
Quoted for the intense amount of truth that I wish I was eloquent enough to get out in one paragraph.

Yes, precisely; and the mosque has nothing to do with the terrorists. You are contradicting yourself.

Because you have to realize that three thousand families lost people to the attacks of 9/11 and it would definitely offend those families by building a building associated with the people who attacked the towers.

Do you live in a house? It is a clearly offensive building to any native tribes that used to live there.
 
But, the terrorists were muslim. Just because the mosque has nothing to do with the terrorists (questionable in its own right) doesn't mean the terrorists have nothing to do with the mosque.
 
But, the terrorists were muslim. Just because the mosque has nothing to do with the terrorists (questionable in its own right) doesn't mean the terrorists have nothing to do with the mosque.
But the Muslims in New York aren't terrorists. It doesn't go both ways. You can't pretend it does.

From a different perspective, why aren't you just as actively arguing against Christian churches built in Arizona/New Mexico/Texas?
 
But, the terrorists were muslim. Just because the mosque has nothing to do with the terrorists (questionable in its own right) doesn't mean the terrorists have nothing to do with the mosque.
Are you going to make up your mind anytime soon? Is Islam involved or not? If it isn't, stop mentioning the fucking Muslims already.
 
Hey, if a church was going to be built two blocks from one of the abortion clinics that were blown up, would you appose it?

After all, we must hold all religions responsible for their extremists.
 
From THE ONE abortion clinic blown up? Yes.

Islam is involved.

It doesn't go both ways, at least I can assume that to make this argument less of an uphill battle. Either way, the terrorists were muslim, and even if the muslims aren't terrorist, it's still going to be a symbol of the terrorists.

New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, were all won from Mexico, where 97% of the public were Christian, and, back when they were won, Christianity was the state religion.
 
How? How is a mosque for the population of normal Muslims (I know one by the way. Sweetest girl in the whole class. It's too bad about all the shit she gets.) going to be a symbol of terrorism? Why can't it be a symbol of peace, respect, and healing?

There's already a mosque near Ground Zero for God's sake!
 
From THE ONE abortion clinic blown up? Yes.
Just one? Ever?

It doesn't go both ways, at least I can assume that to make this argument less of an uphill battle. Either way, the terrorists were muslim, and even if the muslims aren't terrorist, it's still going to be a symbol of the terrorists.
This is close-minded fallacy.

New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, were all won from Mexico, where 97% of the public were Christian, and, back when they were won, Christianity was the state religion.
Wow. Are you seriously going to claim that the entire southwest was 97% Christian before Europeans even came over?

Have you ever considered WHY Christianity was never even heard of in the entire continent prior to Spanish/Portugese/French/English/Dutch imperialism?
 
Islam is involved.
Oh. Well I guess that intense truth was pretty unintense after all.

at least I can assume that to make this argument less of an uphill battle
I'd call foul, but you probably bribed the referee as well.

Either way, the terrorists were muslim, and even if the muslims aren't terrorist, it's still going to be a symbol of the terrorists.
People associate Islam with terrorism, that's true, and that's because the terrorists are the only Muslims you actually see in the media... but this is the exact same reason why Americans have such a poor reputation in the rest of the world; we only notice people like you.

It's not what your country can do for you, Pwnemon...
 
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Either way, the terrorists were muslim, and even if the muslims aren't terrorist, it's still going to be a symbol of the terrorists.

Sooo you're essentially saying "A Mosque is a symbol of terrorism because some Muslims are terrorists".

That's like saying "A fruit bowl is a symbol of disgust because I really hate apples".

Or, how about this?
"A Church is a symbol of destruction because some Christians destroyed an abortion clinic".
 
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