Ground Zero Mosque

[#1 bro]

I'm not really sure what would happen if an extremely eloquent conservative religious authoritarian person showed up and started debating with us here - I'd kind of like to see that take place. All the conservatives that have showed up one by one and left over the years were pretty "n00by" posters, if you understand what I'm saying. Probably because very few internet-savvy people would even bother charging into a forum with their dissenting opinions in that way.

 

[Pwnemon]

The same thing that happens anytime a conservative shows up.

Although I refute the words "conservative religious authoritarian" being put together as one phrase.

 

[Zuu]

The same thing that happens anytime a conservative shows up.

Although I refute the words "conservative religious authoritarian" being put together as one phrase.

I don't even consider you a conservative because you, like most people around your age, have little reason to believe the things they do besides the fact that they were indoctrinated at a young age by super serious parents about this shit.

and Christianity is an authoritarian religion so I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Tarvos]

The same thing that happens anytime a conservative shows up.

What, then, is a conservative?

You'll find I can be very conservative. But I don't advocate stupidity. Or the worship of sky gods.

 

[PK]

okay, so, i know i'm late to this thread and what i have to say has probably been said before, but:

The only reason anyone would be opposed to the building of a mosque near ground zero is if they're uneducated fucks that seriously believes the entire muslim community exists only to act as terrorists.

 

[Aisling]

There's been crap on the morning news about about mosques people are opposing the building of here in TN in light of this whole "ground zero mosque" thing, because people are afraid of "homegrown terrorists". Do you think they'd train terrorists in a place under so much suspect by the general public as a mosque (or community center thing with a mosque in it), if they were going to "homegrow" them? I mean seriously. For real. That shit would be caught in a millisecond. All the reasons people come up with to try to justify it are just bullshit. :/

 

[Phantom]

Exactly! It seems people will say anything to oppose this, thing is half of the things they are saying don't make sense ^ that as an example.

I don't even consider you a conservative because you, like most people around your age, have little reason to believe the things they do besides the fact that they were indoctrinated at a young age by super serious parents about this shit.

Agreed, Pwnemon you're 13, I think you need time to truly figure out what you believe. I was a conservative Catholic until I turned 16, now I am atheist, things change.

 

[Saith]

I don't even consider you a conservative because you, like most people around your age, have little reason to believe the things they do besides the fact that they were indoctrinated at a young age by super serious parents about this shit.

Does this apply to all opinions of people under 13, or just conservative ones?

 

[opaltiger]

Does this apply to all opinions of people under 13, or just conservative ones?

All, I should think, but I am quite sure conservative parents are more likely to indoctrinate their children than liberal parents, at least from my personal experience.

 

[Pwnemon]

Nah, just conservative ones. Those poor liberal children whose fathers shove their doctrine down their throat are OK. I'm not the only one posting here who's thirteen, but only I get questioned. Either way, I doubt I'll change my beliefs. These are hardly my parents' in the first place. I just really care about politics.

 

[Espeon]

Over here in the United Kingdom, "Conservative" isn't a great thing to be, in the slightest.

 

[Aisling]

Kam posted, yeah, but he's not... exactly... trying to debate... I don't think. So that's pretty much why we're only bringing your age into question.

Do you know any liberal children personally who have been indoctrinated by their parents? Like 100% for sure that's why they're liberal? I can't... really imagine that though. "SON! GAYS MUST HAVE RIGHTS! DON'T LISTEN TO THOSE CONSERVATIVE KIDS, PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE RIGHTS." if he's yelling I guess that's bad but I don't... I mean, I probably can't imagine that in that way because I generally agree with those sentiments (and am probably biased to think liberal-shoving either happens a lot less and/or isn't as bad as conservative-shoving), so correct me if I'm missing something. I don't pay much particular attention to the extremes of either end, I just kind of sit in the middle and look at things objectively.

I mean, I was pretty conservative myself until I was about 13 or so, and it was another couple years before I began identifying as atheist. It's okay to be wrong and let yourself question things! Honestly thinking about your mental well-being here.

 

[PK]

Kam posted, yeah, but he's not... exactly... trying to debate... I don't think.

Do you know any liberal children personally who have been indoctrinated by their parents? Like 100% for sure that's why they're liberal? I can't... really imagine that though. "SON! GAYS MUST HAVE RIGHTS! DON'T LISTEN TO CONSERVATIVE THOSE KIDS, PEOPLE SHOULD HAVE RIGHTS." if he's yelling I guess that's bad but I don't... I mean, that's probably because I generally agree, so correct me if I'm missing something. I don't pay much particular attention to the extremes of either end, I just kind of sit in the middle and look at things objectively.

i have sort-of conservative parents, and they definitely tried to indoctrinate me, at least religiously. I went with it until about 3 years ago when i finally grew out of it. All the liberal families i know of never tried to impose their political or religious beliefs on their child, although i'm sure there are SOME out there that do.

 

[Saith]

You agree with it, so it's alright?
I'm obviously pretty liberal, so it's not like I'm arguing for the whatevers, but I still think it's wrong to force your beliefs on someone, even if I agree with you.
That said, I frequently shout at my homophobic mates to get my point across, so I guess I'm pretty hypocritical.

And anyway, even if it's hard to imagine a liberal kid who's had 'rights' forced down their throats, it still doesn't mean they're not echoing their parents.

 

[Aisling]

You agree with it, so it's alright?
I'm obviously pretty liberal, so it's not like I'm arguing for the whatevers, but I still think it's wrong to force your beliefs on someone, even if I agree with you.
That said, I frequently shout at my homophobic mates to get my point across, so I guess I'm pretty hypocritical.

And anyway, even if it's hard to imagine a liberal kid who's had 'rights' forced down their throats, it still doesn't mean they're not echoing their parents.

Hmm. Yeah, I guess I worded that really badly. What I was trying to get at was that casual conservatives (like the ones that aren't politicians or are really extreme) are generally about government enforcement of Biblical laws while liberals are about keeping those things separate, for the most part, right? Forcing your opinions on someone is always bad, but I'll admit I would think one is a lesser evil, at least.

 

[hopeandjoy]

Because my parents totally went "REBECCA, YOU WILL BE LIBERAL AND HATE IGNORANCE OR ELSE!" ಠ_ಠ

As a recap of my family's beliefs:

My mom's side are all liberals. Extremely racist liberals, but liberals none the less.
My Grandfather was a conservative, and remained so until the day he died.
My Grandmother was a conservative, but became liberal around the time of the Civil Rights Movement.
My mother is liberal because she feels that it fits her Catholicism the best.
My father was a conservative, but became liberal when he realized that George Bush Sr. was fucking the economy over and the Republicans were slowly going batshit insane.
My sister is like my mother.
My brother is moderate, though still liberal leaning.
I'm super-duper liberal, complete with being pro-choice, pro-gay rights, pro-anything-human-rights-related, and having slight socialistic tendencies. I am easily the most liberal member of my family.

As you can see, I was not brainwashed.

 

[Phantom]

True, I believe all parents teach their children their beliefs, but I think that you need time to mature and learn your own ways. For example you quote so many politicians and news stations, but you're own personal opinion is being put underneath theirs. You are still impressionable by the media and the adults around you.

 

[ultraviolet]

I'm not the only one posting here who's thirteen, but only I get questioned.

I think it's more the fact that you ignore pretty much everyone who replies to you. if you can't back yourself up in an argument of course people are going to question you?

 

[Adriane]

Well, if anyone could believe it, I was fundamentalist Christian and very conservative when I was 13 :T

Thankfully, #tcod knocked some sense into me and I grew up a little. And I learned to think for myself.

 

[ultraviolet]

related:

...A controversy has raged over Park51, the planned Islamic cultural center about two blocks from ground zero that would include a mosque. While supporters of Park51 point to the First Amendment's guarantee of religious freedom, opponents say the mosque should be moved farther away from where Islamic extremists destroyed the World Trade Center and killed nearly 2,800 people on Sept. 11, 2001.

Simmons said he supported the cultural center being built at the proposed site, and that the country was built on religious freedom."The fact that it is a public discussion, that there's so many against it is what I think is disappointing to me, that so many people don't know that we founded our country on the First Amendment," he said.
Simmons also said it was important for non-Muslims to speak out on the issue.
"It's for Jews, it's for Christians, it's for African-Americans and other non-Muslims to stand up and protect the rights of the Muslims involved in this debate. They shouldn't have to say a word," he said. "It's an American principle, it should offend every American."

from here.

I thought this was fairly clever, actually. the article goes on to say that he's leaving these signs up until at least september eleven.