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Homosexuality

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@Zhorken: I'm simply saying that the gay-marriage-is-wrong-because-it-is-not-Bible-conforming argument doesn't make sense to me for this reason.

I feel that homosexuality is as natural as people that choose not to have babies. I DON'T feel that it's a choice at all... why would anyone choose a lifestyle in which they get kicked out of church, beat up, et cetera?
 
Peter Shadeslayer said:
I'm against gay marriage, even though I'm gay. More specifically, I'm against the religious form of marriage. The argument exists that marriage is a religious institution, but nonreligious people are allowed to get married everyday. Why should gays not be allotted the rights of married folks? I don't care what they call it as long as the rights are equal... which, in America, they currently aren't. I understand and agree with the argument that gays shouldn't be allowed to be married since they allegedly are denying God or whatever, but so is everyone else that is nonreligious and is allowed to be married.
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The point is not the religions connotations of marriage, but the recognition of the relationship and its equality.

So I wouldn't go about saying 'I'm against gay marriage' since it gives off the wrong image. Yeah.
 
Zhorken said:
Again: what difference does it make if it's (un)natural? I could go after the rest but I want an answer to this for once.
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Just saying that as to a reason why some people dislike homosexuality, because it's not natural. Same reason some people hate some other shit.
 
I'm fine with it, despite the fact that I'm semi-Catholic. My mom put it this way: God doesn't make mistakes, so how can homosexuality be a sin?

My mom is pretty awesome when it comes to this stuff.
 
Again: what difference does it make if it's (un)natural? I could go after the rest but I want an answer to this for once.
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It doesn't, but it gives people who are against homosexuality less of an excuse to say that there's something 'wrong' with us.
Not that these people often pay attention to science anyway. :/
 
what difference does it make if it's (un)natural?
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I gotta go with Peter Shadeslayer here; whether it's a choice or not shouldn't matter, but when people have to face harassment and hatred every day because they've got a same-sex partner, telling them "Oh, but you chose to be like that!" is the littlest bit insensitive; telling someone that they actively chose to do be something that their family/their religion/society hates makes them sound at best attention seeking and at worst totally nuts/masochistic.
 
If you don't choose to be homosexual, how is it unnatural? Unless you are defining natural in a different way than me.
 
Peter Shadeslayer said:
@Zhorken: I'm simply saying that the gay-marriage-is-wrong-because-it-is-not-Bible-conforming argument doesn't make sense to me for this reason.
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Ah, so you were being facetious? Sorry I didn't catch that; your posts were a bit scattered and I got kind of confused.

ultraviolet said:
It doesn't, but it gives people who are against homosexuality less of an excuse to say that there's something 'wrong' with us.
Not that these people often pay attention to science anyway. :/
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Dannichu said:
I gotta go with Peter Shadeslayer here; whether it's a choice or not shouldn't matter, but when people have to face harassment and hatred every day because they've got a same-sex partner, telling them "Oh, but you chose to be like that!" is the littlest bit insensitive; telling someone that they actively chose to do be something that their family/their religion/society hates makes them sound at best attention seeking and at worst totally nuts/masochistic.
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Alright, that's fair.

Momoharu said:
Just saying that as to a reason why some people dislike homosexuality, because it's not natural. Same reason some people hate some other shit.
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sure, I guess. I figured you were planning on arguing it, since you did say you find homosexuality "pretty fucked up" and that you wanted to make this "less of an 'lets just all agree' thread".
 
The original text also doesn't say Mary was a virgin, just a young girl.
what now
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because a young girl getting knocked up is totally better. :D

And if homosexuality was natural, or going in conformance with nature,
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who said it doesn't?

Personally I think homosexuality is pretty fucked up, but whatever.
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Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred:
'Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns' he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.​
 
Momoharu said:
Personally I think homosexuality is pretty fucked up, but whatever.
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Personally I think people who think homosexuality is pretty fucked up are pretty fucked up. Fortunately this is my personal opinion and doesn't matter when it comes to matters of law.

And if homosexuality was natural, or going in conformance with nature, then wouldn't men be able to reproduce together without the need for external stuff, ditto for women? Thus, it's not very natural at all, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a choice, either.
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This is an argument I really don't get. So what if two men or two women can't reproduce (and they can, with artificial insemination; does that make the latter natural?)? How does this make their relationship any less natural? Am I to take it that relationships in which one partner is sterile are also unnatural?

Natural: something occurring in nature. Homosexuality is widely documented as appearing in a huge range of animals. Homosexuality is natural. QED.

Genetic mutations happen in viruses, maybe a mutation happened in the way people think, so what they say is being born that way is just a mutation in their sex drive or whatever the hell it is.
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Mutations occur in everything. But mutations cannot be the cause of homosexuality, because the likelihood of so many people (5 - 7% of the population, was it?) having a mutation that somehow solely causes homosexuality is tiny*.

Also, might I suggest you learn more about the subject at hand before making blindly ignorant statements?

PS: While marriage has been a religious institution in the past, I would say that time is over and it is now recognised to a far greater degree as a legal contract.


*I am not saying that homosexuality is not at least partially caused by a genetic factor, which would by definition have been a mutation in an organism at some point. I am saying that homosexuality as a phenomenon can not be explained as a result of independent mutations in each individual.
 
Momoharu said:
And if homosexuality was natural, or going in conformance with nature, then wouldn't men be able to reproduce together without the need for external stuff, ditto for women?
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So... men and women being sexually attracted/emotionally attracted/having sex with eachother is unnatural because... it doesn't make babies?

A lot of things don't make babies. There's no real reason why sex should only be permitted or accepted in the case of reproduction. A hat was made to be worn on the head, that doesn't mean you can't use it as a massive glove (yeah... that was the only example I could think of).
 
So you can't kiss a girl? It doesn't make you reproduce. Handjobs are forbidden, don't make you reproduce.
 
Cirrus said:
A hat was made to be worn on the head, that doesn't mean you can't use it as a massive glove (yeah... that was the only example I could think of).
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Or, to make it even simpler: a hat was made. Man-made means unnatural and therefore wrong... right?
 
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