Homosexuality

[eamonn]

This topic is way too long to read.

Anyway, seeing homosexuality of any kind as either a virtue or a vice is ridiculous.

Also, pansexuality ftw. ^__^

 

[J.T.]

Either way my replies don't matter, ask him what his sources are and call him out when they all turn out to be right-wing.

Alternatively, the guy could disappear as soon as I ask. That works too. Maybe he's just gone for a trip or something, or. He's been replaced by a guy who thinks the gays have a plan to take over the world and get rid of heterosexuals by taking over public education, and who claims homosexuality's a mental disorder (with his only evidence being that the APA used to consider it one - he then followed it up by saying the APA was intimidated into not calling it a disorder by "the gays", and therefore it still is one) before turning around and saying it's easily changeable. So ultimately, it's an improvement in the sense that now it's easy to prove him wrong.

 

[Aura Cobalt]

Allright get ready.
No, actually I don't plan reviving the most controversial aspect of this thread (the morality aspect). Just hear me out.

What I am going to say is that the whole nature of homosexuality is messed up. I mean how people who want to "come out with their sexuality" act a certain way.

We all know the steryotypes that homosexuals (male) carry: nice, try to look good in public, in touch with their feelings, etc. To me it seems rediculous. If you like men, fine. Why sould what you want to feel in bed affect how you act everyday? Fitting yourself into a steryotype is not coming out with your sexuality. Since so many people seem to accept homosexuality now, why don't you just be normal and freely tell people you're gay? It's twisted how acting a certain way is the only way for you to show "you're gay and you're proud". If the whole world doesn't know you're gay within the first minute they see you, doesn't that make it more intimite? I'm sure you could still find other people like you.

If you really wanted to you could wear a tshirt or something that says you're gay. It's just acting a certain way I'm opposed to. There are guys who really are that way who could have been straight, but society is telling them they're gay because of how they act.

I know there are plenty of homosexuals who don't go out and be flamboyant. I am arguing about the ones that do. This is the worst part of the whole homosexuality thing. Personally I am opposed to homosexuality in general because of my Christian worldview and the fact that homosexuality denies the way things were meant to be, but I don't accuse homosexuals of being the scum that most Christians assume. Before the '80's homosexuality was considered a mental disorder. Mental disorders are things that are not the individual's fault but are to be treated. I said earlier that I am opposed to homosexuality because it denies what was meant to be. If you are coming from an atheist worldview there is no reason to believe in a "way things were meant to be". The fact that I think some atheists (not all, mind you) hold their views so that they won't feel guilty for anything is a whole other can of worms.

Anyway, I want to know what you think.

 

[Automata heart]

i believe that everyone should be able to be together, if they like people of the same gender, than that's awesome. i am a staunch supporter of gay rights. if they want to be married, let them. i have never once met a nasty gay person, they are awesome people, and they have every right to happiness.

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

I think you can be straight all you want as long as you don't do it in my face, how does that sound? I mean, I don't consider straight people the scum of the earth or anything, but why do you have to flaunt your heterosexuality like this? Stop acting like a breeder, dude.

See, this is what I get from your post, except in reverse. And it's... stupid. You're okay with fags as long as they don't show any sign of their orientation? Really? How are they harming anyone by being a little camp? True, some gay people conform to stereotypes because they think society expects it of them (and it sadly does, if you switch on any prime time television show with a gay guy in it), but some people just happen to be more flamboyant than others. What's the problem with that? Are they less valid as humans because of it? The vast majority of gay people isn't nearly as flamboyant, just as the majority of Christians aren't crazy assholes (except camp gays don't harm anyone). Vocal minorities here.
Anyway, if they are more camp, what do you want them to do about it?

and if your definition of 'camp gay' is "[being] nice, try[ing] to look good in public, [being] in touch with their feelings" then you're the one being ridiculous. I'm not a very nice person, but I do try to look good and I am in touch with my feelings. I don't consider myself at all within the realm of camp gay, but I wouldn't mind being there. I'm just... not.
Normal straight guys are also all three of the previously mentioned. Unless to be a Real Straight Man(tm) you have to be a jerk, look like shit and be made of rock, in which case, I know nearly no straight people.

My whole point is: why is it a bad thing? Why can't the minority of flamboyant gays act like flamboyant gays? Why do they have to fit into the tiny box you and many other bigots create in their head? There are some gay people who also blame the camp ones and frankly it gets old really fast.

Also, yes, before the 80s homosexuality was written down as a mental disorder. In the 50s, left-handedness was written down as abnormal. Your point is...?

The fact that I think some atheists (not all, mind you) hold their views so that they won't feel guilty for anything is a whole other can of worms.

Get off that high horse.

EDIT: also I have met plenty of jerk gay people, and am one. Doesn't mean we don't deserve the right to happiness. We're not better or worse than straight people, we're the same.

 

[Dannichu]

We all know the steryotypes that homosexuals (male) carry: nice, try to look good in public, in touch with their feelings, etc. To me it seems rediculous.

This is hilarious. It's hilarious in-context, out of context and from every angle.
"OHNOEZ, not the NICE MEN!"

Not everyone (gay, straight, bi, other) conforms to a gender binary. Lots of people think emotions and caring about one's appearance are for women, but going to work and watching sports on TV are for men. And while you seem to be particularly fond of such binary, it might surprise you that not everbody does.

You accuse gay men of letting their sexuality (or "what they feel in bed". The homophobic man's assumption that "gay men = GAY SEX!!" is amusing to me) affect every aspect of their behaviour. You're probably not aware of it, but you're letting your heterosexuality affect every aspect of your behaviour.

You're a straight, cisgendered man (and, if I were to guess, I'd say that you're white, middle-class and able-bodied, too), and it makes sense that you'd cling to a gender binary that says "men don't need to be NICE or have FEELINGS, that stuff's for the GIRLS", because being nice and having feelings means that you have to treat other people (especially women) with respect, and that would damage your manliness.

But, uh, give it a try, okay? Otherwise, I pity the girl who ends up with you.

 

[Zuu]

"now, i'm fine with sort of black people, but niggers just freak me out"

 

[ultraviolet]

Anyway, I want to know what you think.

If I went through and changed every instance (almost) of you saying 'homosexual' to 'christian' or 'religious' or 'straight' or something, does that sound fair to you? Why does it matter how someone acts if it makes them happy? Has it ever occurred to you that some people act flamboyant because they like it? I know plenty of people who act flamboyant who are probably straighter than you. If you don't like how someone acts around you because they're acting 'obviously gay' then that's your problem. If it offends you because you're religious, that's also your problem. People should not have to censor the way they act to appease the public. I am all for people being true to themselves and not having to worry whether people are getting offended because they're wearing something particularly flamboyant today. Can you not see how ridiculous this is? That you're letting people who act differently to you - people who you probably don't even know or talk to - offend you. I could understand if they were spreading hate speech or kicking children, but if you can't get over the fact that someone's being camp in your vicinity, you really need to learn to be tolerant. I'm tolerant of people that I don't agree with. I tolerate people who offend and upset me. But I'm not going to ask them to go away or start acting normal because I don't like it and how dare they act a certain way when I'm trying to walk down the street. There are other people who live in this world aside from people who share your opinions. It is incredibly selfish of you to get offended when someone acts differently to you in a completely non-threatening way. I have no sympathy for you. Get over yourself.

We all know the steryotypes that homosexuals (male) carry: nice, try to look good in public, in touch with their feelings, etc. To me it seems rediculous. If you like men, fine.

This pretty much accurately describes all 15 of my male friends, about three of which are homosexual. Please, it's the 21st century. If you really think that 'being in touch with your feelings' and 'looking good in public' are signs of homosexuality you have a lot to think about. I don't care if you think it's 'rediculous'. They don't, either. I think you're being ridiculous.

If the whole world doesn't know you're gay within the first minute they see you, doesn't that make it more intimite? I'm sure you could still find other people like you.

Why do you act so straight? Doesn't it make it all that more intimate if people have to find out you're straight? What? You would be uncomfortable if people didn't know you were straight? Hm! That's interesting. Don't you think that sometimes gay people act gay to attract gay people, just as you act straight to attract straight women?

Before the '80's homosexuality was considered a mental disorder. Mental disorders are things that are not the individual's fault but are to be treated.

... what does this even have to do with anything? This doesn't make you look any less intolerant, you know, just saying that you're not agreeing with views that were (probably) around before you were born.

The fact that I think some atheists (not all, mind you) hold their views so that they won't feel guilty for anything is a whole other can of worms.

what does this even have to do with homosexuals? I'm an athiest and I feel guilty for forgetting to respond to emails, not being true to myself. This feels like you just wanted to add 'also athiesm to me is dumb' at the end of your post, because it's completely not relevant you knew it wouldn't be received well even though you added that it's a 'whole other can of worms'.

in any case, I am completely not sorry that me acting like a flamboyant lesbian/bisexual offends you. I would not be offended if you decided to walk around with a giant cross stuck to your back (or something), despite the fact that creationism and most kinds of christianity offend me deeply. I wouldn't ask you to change who you are so you could fit into my worldview. Why should people have to do it for you? If you can't get over the fact that there are people out there who are different to you (oh noes) then this isn't even about homosexuality. It's about intolerance, one of the worst blights of humankind.

 

[Harlequin]

damn it you fags I wanted to say something but you all got there first >:(

I don't understand why being nice, looking nice and not ignoring the way you feel is gay. I think it's healthy to confront how you feel about things, and being nice is just easier than being an arsehole, and looking nice is just generally good because of the social implications: people don't like shabbiness or ugliness. It's shallow but it's true: a well-dressed businessman in a suit will always present a nicer image than a man in rags with a scruffy beard.

but yeah everything I had to say has already been said :( woe

 

[Tarvos]

i am in touch with my feelings, cry, and have a super loving girlfriend

how could I possibly be gay MISTER

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

One of my friends is a really nice guy, spends hours making himself look good, spent an hour having a deep conversation with me last night about the place of love in our lives, went to a costume party as a priest and once exited a shop with the comment, "Wow, that place had fabulous dresses." He's straight as fuck.

Another one of my friends is an unrepentant asshole, doesn't give a fuck about his appearance, is completely stoic, went to a costume party as the Punisher and groans every time his cousin drags him shopping. He's the gayest guy I've ever met.

I'm usually a really nice guy but can be an asshole, I get really ticked off if my hair looks terrible but otherwise don't care about how I look, act completely stoic while secretly I'm extremely aware of my feelings, went to a costume party as Robin Hood and love shopping for books and games but hate clothes-shopping. I'm bi.

The straight guy is single, the gay guy is a manwhore and I've got a girlfriend. Where does this fit into your worldview?

 

[Aura Cobalt]

Allow me to clarify something that really needs clairification.

We all know the steryotypes that homosexuals (male) carry: nice, try to look good in public, in touch with their feelings, etc. To me [conforming to this (or really any in general) steryotype] seems rediculous.

My whole point is: why is it a bad thing?

I'm sorry I wasn't clear about this. I'm just trying to say I don't like it because it can make kids who aren't really sure about their sexuality start to think that they can tell they are oriented a certain way because of how they act, if that made sense. I completely did not mean that guys should not be said things; quite the opposite. I am more annoyed by guys who aren't, trust me. What I am opposed to is the steryotyping. I know there really are gay guys who fit the steryotypes and act the way they do naturally. It's the steryotyping that I thought we have been taught was never a good thing for any group of people whether it be on account of race or gender or anything else. I just hope you can see where I'm coming from now. That was why I went into the homosexuality being a mental disorder thing; I think it should be still be treated.

 

[ultraviolet]

That was why I went into the homosexuality being a mental disorder thing; I think it should be still be treated.

Why exactly do you think it should be treated as a mental disorder? Do you think it is one? If you do, why do you think that (and 'because it's against my religion' is not a reason for something to be a mental disorder, btw)?

I'm just trying to say I don't like it because it can make kids who aren't really sure about their sexuality start to think that they can tell they are oriented a certain way because of how they act, if that made sense.

I understand that you're against the whole gay stereotype (and fair enough) but like... if you don't like gays being stereotyped so kids might think that acting a certain way will make them look gay - why do you think homosexuality should be treated as a mental disorder? That just... you're not making any sense.

Also way to totally ignore what everyone else said. Did you read anyone else's posts?

 

[Tarvos]

I think religion being a mental disorder is more likely than homosexuality to be one, tbh. Religion is advanced schizophrenia.

 

[Autumn]

That was why I went into the homosexuality being a mental disorder thing; I think it should be still be treated.

I find this statement utterly sick. Thanks for saying half the forum (myself included) has mental problems!

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

Are you an advocate of this technique, by any chance?

 

[Minish]

I said earlier that I am opposed to homosexuality because it denies what was meant to be. If you are coming from an atheist worldview there is no reason to believe in a "way things were meant to be". The fact that I think some atheists (not all, mind you) hold their views so that they won't feel guilty for anything is a whole other can of worms.

Anyway, I want to know what you think.

I think the paragraph you posted makes me too angry to form anything much more coherent than "go to hell you [expletive of your choice]".

Are you an advocate of this technique, by any chance?

Oh man. I was sort of dying inside while reading some of Aura Cobalt's comments, and then I watched this and lol'd. :D

 

[Aura Cobalt]

Why exactly do you think it should be treated as a mental disorder? Do you think it is one? If you do, why do you think that (and 'because it's against my religion' is not a reason for something to be a mental disorder, btw)?

In my idea of an ideal society, it would be treated as a mental disorder because I believe it is one. Why? Because part of my religion is that it is. My religion is just my collective set of beliefs that support one another and hold them together, and so they determine what I think an ideal society should be. Really, it isn't difficult. I trust in the content of the bible because of the historical content which I think backs it up (which is a different debate), and if I believed that homosexuality was perfectly normal I would have no explaination for significant portions of it. I mean I had myself a laugh out of the video but frankly, I don't see any reason not to believe homosexuality is a mental disorder.

Also way to totally ignore what everyone else said. Did you read anyone else's posts?

Umm, didn't clairifying what I meant pretty much cover what everyone said since they got the wrong impression from my first post and then argued against that? Pretty much everything that everyone said was true and would need to be said to someone who thinks guys can't be nice and emotional and have to be slobs.

 

[Flora]

I had a great post yesterday but then i had dinner and couldn't get it back D:

everybody basically said my stuff on the stereotype thing but this one really gets me:

Personally I am opposed to homosexuality in general because of my Christian worldview and the fact that homosexuality denies the way things were meant to be

first of all I'm a christian - uh, i go to an all-girl catholic high school - and I'm highly opposed to anti-gay stuff. Basically all of my school agrees.

secondly, who are you to determine what exactly is "the way things were meant to be"? My mom brought up a very interesting point while we were discussing this (and it may be a bit very religious, but whatever): if God created it, doesn't that mean that it's good?

i think i stated this before, but my basic opinion is ACCEPTANCE~

 

[Zuu]

it's not a mental disorder because you think it's one, much less because of a book written by intolerant, ignorant sheepherders.