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Homosexuality

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Maybe we should send asexuals to therapy. I don't know.
One could argue that voluntary abstinence is a bigger sign of mental illness than a physical incapacity or unwillingness to copulate.
Plus, when one has a libido, sexual repression leads to things like abusing small children, which I think is a slightly more reprehensible attitude than homosexuality.

The obvious solution is to adapt the church to modern times. Who's surprised?
 
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I would argue that it does impair normal emotional and behavioral functioning.
now how in the hell would that even work
an attraction to the /same sex/ messes up behaviour functions????
Look at all of these guys posting in this thread. Most are queer, and all of them function just like everyone else

what d'you consider "normal" emotional and behaviour functioning anyway? and how does being gay make it change?
 
I'm so deeply saddened that there needs to even be a debate here. Why are people so intolerant? Being gay is not a mental disorder. Some of my closest friends are gay.
 
Since when can animals not have mental disorders?

Since, apparently, around the same time an entire freaking species of animal can have a "mental disorder".

"Family-linkage and twin studies have indicated that genetic factors often play an important role in the development of mental disorders. The reliable identification of specific genetic susceptibility to particular disorders, through linkage or association studies, has proven difficult. This has been reported to be likely due to the complexity of interactions between genes, environmental events, and early development[10] or to the need for new research strategies.[11] The heritability of behavioral traits associated with mental disorder may be greater in permissive than in restrictive environments, and susceptibility genes probably work through both "within-the-skin" (physiological) pathways and "outside-the-skin" (behavioral and social) pathways.[12] Investigations increasingly focus on links between genes and endophenotypes—more specific traits (including neurophysiological, biochemical, endocrinological, neuroanatomical, cognitive, or neuropsychological)—rather than disease categories."

How does this relate to homosexuality being a mental disorder?

By this logic I was a product of the devil when I had the flu. Yes I believe that mental disorders were invented by the Devil, but that's not what I believe it implies!

Oh? Then what did it imply? What else did you mean by "homosexuality is a mental disorder, and mental disorders are the work of teh debbil"?

I would argue that it does impair normal emotional and behavioral functioning.

How so?

Maybe we should send asexuals to therapy. I don't know.

Oh, you're pleasant. Everything you don't understand is a mental disorder, is that it?

Question: What proof do you have that homosexuality is a mental disorder? The Bible says nothing about it being a mental disorder, only being an "abomination" (and considering how many rules you pick and choose from Leviticus, that point's kind of moot). So the only reasoning you've brought up for your claim is "i think it is lols", and that's hardly enough reasoning.
 
I really don't understand it at all when people say homosexuality is "unnatural". "THIS JUST IN: SCIENTISTS ADMIT TO SYNTHESIZING HOMOSEXUALITY IN A LAB"
 
My favorites:

'If a priest's daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she disgraces her father; she must be burned in the fire.'

concerning a priest potential wives:

'The woman he marries must be a virgin. He must not marry a widow, a divorced woman, or a woman defiled by prostitution, but only a virgin from his own people, so he will not defile his offspring among his people. I am the LORD, who makes him holy.
'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

Harsh, eh?
 
How am I supposed to reply to all these posts? There is something I could say to every one of you, but I really feel like I can't cover much ground when it's the-entire-forum-minus-one on one, and I don't really feel like it or need to. Originally my only intention was to talk against gay steryotypes. To let you know where I was coming from I threw a note in there about how I think homosexuality is a mental disorder, and now the thread virtually completely revolves around that. I feel like I accomplished my original purpose of posting, and at this point I don't really care if you think I am intolerant. In the real world I am not so openly repressive or whatever you want to say I am of homosexuals.
 
I think it's really funny when homophobic people post in here not realizing that like half the forum is LGBT and even more are atheist. This is the only Pokemon forum I've seen where this debate is so one-sided, and I kind of love it.
 
Grow some stones. You came into the topic saying (without evidence!) that a good chunk of the people on this forum have mental issues, and get surprised when people get upset? Are you kidding me?
 
Awww. It was just getting good, too. I was really looking forward to this guy's attempts at backing himself up. D:
 
The thing is, nobody is going to let you say whatever you want and not challenge your questionable opinions just because you say it wasn't your main point.

Imagine that suddenly the tables are turned. Atheists are a majority and religious people are treated like freaks. And the nicest atheists pity you because they claim you have a mental disorder. Don't worry, it's not your fault or anything!

And this isn't even counting generations of hate crimes you'd have to face!

By this logic I was a product of the devil when I had the flu. Yes I believe that mental disorders were invented by the Devil, but that's not what I believe it implies!

The flu is not a mental disorder
 
How am I supposed to reply to all these posts? There is something I could say to every one of you, but I really feel like I can't cover much ground when it's the-entire-forum-minus-one on one, and I don't really feel like it or need to. Originally my only intention was to talk against gay steryotypes. To let you know where I was coming from I threw a note in there about how I think homosexuality is a mental disorder, and now the thread virtually completely revolves around that. I feel like I accomplished my original purpose of posting, and at this point I don't really care if you think I am intolerant. In the real world I am not so openly repressive or whatever you want to say I am of homosexuals.

well hey that's what you get when you say 50% of the forum has a mental disorder when they uh, don't

and mental disorders are recognised and diagnosed by scientists because psychology and biology are sciences, not religion.
 
frankly, I don't see any reason not to believe homosexuality is a mental disorder.

Hi, uh, Dr. Cobalt. I... This is hard to admit. But, you see... Oh god... I'm gay.

I was told to come to your mental clinic, and I just want to know, uh... How do I heal myself? What sorts of therapies can you offer me? And most of all, where did I get my disorder from?

Help me please :<

(Please reply soon, I'm afraid I might develop other disorders soon, like atheism or something...)
 
Just posting this here, in case I lose it again.

the slow said:
Homosexuality was a perfectly acceptable sexual orientation in ancient Egypt and circa 2400 BC, the Overseers of the Manicurists in the Palace of King Niuserre during the Fifth Dynasty of Egyptian pharaohs were a gay couple, Khnumhotep and Niankhkhnum, and were also royal confidants to Niuserre, even receiving burial in a necropolis along with other royal aides.

In ancient Crete, circa 1600 BC - 600 BC, homosexual relationships were not only considered perfectly natural and healthy but they were encouraged in the Cretan aristocracy and, in fact, it was considered deeply shameful for a young aristocrat to not have a male lover.

In ancient Greece, while same-sex marriage was not legally recognised, homosexual relationships were common and socially acceptable, and such relationships were modelled identically to Greek marriages but for the difference in gender of one of the partners.

During the same time, Sappho of Lesbos wrote her many love poems to other women (and also invented the original Mixolydian mode, though because her writings were destroyed by Christians, the name was taken and applied to something completely different but not the actual music theory itself). Sappho of Lesbos would later provide the eventual inspiration for the modern-day terms sapphic and lesbian.

Approximately 200 years later, Plato's Symposium argues that love between two males is the highest form of love and that love between men and women is lustful, only useful for reproduction and prevents men reaching their full potential as people.

Fifty years after Symposium's publication, the Sacred Band of Thebes, an up-until-then-undefeated battalion of 150 gay couple is defeated by Philip II of Macedon, who bemoans their loss and praises their honour.

A mere 12 years later, Philip's bisexual son Alexander the Great conquers most of the known world and converts it to the gay-friendly Hellenistic culture, launching the Hellenistic Age.

With the beginning of the reign of Emperor Augustus, the Roman Empire is ushered in and the first gay marriage is performed. The Roman Empire is a time in which art and literature depict homosexual love in a positive light. Romans, like the Greeks, celebrated love and sex amongst men. Two Roman Emperors publicly married men (one of whom was Nero), some had gay lovers themselves (one of the most beloved Roman Emperors, Trajan, was famously homosexual and Elagabalus, another Emperor, married an athlete named Zoticus in a public ceremony), and homosexual prostitution was taxed.

Starting with the 300-400 AD period, in which Christianity spreads throughout the Western world, the first anti-homosexual laws were brought in. During this time, one of the last pieces of literature celebrating homosexual passion, Nonnus's Dionysiaca, was published.

During the 5th century AD, despite the numerous Christianity-inspired anti-gay laws, the Catholic Church continued to tax homosexual prostitutes.

400 years later, during the 9th century, also in spite of the many laws condemning his feelings as sin, Alcuin of York, an abbot, writes numerous love poems to other monks.

During the 1300s, Edward II of England had a gay lover, Piers Gaveston, Earl of Cornwall. Edward is killed in 1327. sodomised by a red-hot poker.

Over 200 years later, Mary Tudor repeals all laws against sodomy made by her father, only for them to be reinstated after her death by her sister.

In 1791 during the French Revolution, France decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.

Four years, later Luxembourg and Tuscany follow suit.

In 1811, the Netherlands decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.

Two years later, Bavaria does the same.

In 1828, the United States makes homosexuality a crime against nature.

Two years later, Brazil goes the opposite direction and decriminsalises it.

In 1852, Portugal decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.

Six years later, the Ottoman Empire decriminalises sodomy and East Timor completely decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.

In 1865, San Marino decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.

In 1870, Joseph and His Friend: A Story of Pennsylvania, the first American novel that portrays a homosexual relationship in a positive light, is published.

In 1871, the Second Reich criminalises homosexuality. During the decade immediately after, Guatemala, Mexico and Japan decriminalise homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.

In 1886, Argentina decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.

Three years later, Italy follows suit.

In 1922, the USSR decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.

Two years later, Panama, Paraguay and Peru follow suit.

In 1930, Denmark decriminalises homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.

Four years later, Uruguay follows suit.

During the 1940s, Iceland, Sweden, Switzerland and Suriname all decriminalise homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults. Homosexuals liberated from Nazi concentration camps by Allied forces are forced to serve out the rest of their sentence by their liberators.

In the 1950s, 190 US government employees are fired for being gay. During the same decade, Greece and Thailand join the majority of the Western World in decriminalising homosexuality and all homosexual acts between consenting adults.

In the 1960s, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Chad, Bulgaria, East Germany, West Germany, the United Kingdom and Canada join the majority.

In the 1970s, Kosovo, Austria, Costa Rica, Finland, Norway, Malta, Croatia, Montenegro, Slovenia, Vojvodina, Cuba and Spain join the majority.

In the 1980s, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Colombia, Belize, Israel and Liechtenstein join the majority.

In the 1990s, the Bahamas, Hong Kong, Ukraine, the Isle of Man, Estonia, Latvia, the Republic of Ireland, Belarus, Gibraltar, Russia, Lithuania, Bermuda, Serbia, South Africa, Albania, Moldova, Romania, Australia, Ecuador, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Chile, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Cyprus, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Gabon join the majority.

In 2003, Armenia joins the majority.

The next year, so do Cape Verde and the Marshall Islands.

A year after, that Puerto Rico conforms to the majority.

In 2006, the United States of America officially becomes completely free of anti-gay laws.

In 2009, India conforms to the majority.

And a graph relevant to the aforementioned history;

graphh.png


Hmmm, that's strange, Christianity spreads to the Western world and societal acceptance of homosexuality drops rapidly. I never saw that coming.

For clarity, Ancient Crete lies between Ancient Egypt and Ancient Greece, the Hellenistic Age lies between Ancient Greece and the Roman Republic, the Roman Empire lies between the Roman Republic and the Arrival of Christianity in the West, the Christian Dark Ages lie between the Arrival of Christianity in the West and the Age of Revolutions, the 1800s lie between the Age of Revolutions and the 1900-1950 and thereafter, just fill in decades.

And on the topic of this whole "abomination" thing, since we've brought it up, the word "abomination" carries a different meaning in the Bible than in other contexts. The Biblical understanding of "abomination" comes from the Hebrew toevah which means an act that if performed, must be undone with ritual purification between the time the act is performed and the next time the person who performs the acts worships in a temple. An abomination in this sense would therefore also apply to having an evening meal at a shellfish restaurant or playing a game of American football as eating shellfish and playing with the skin of a pig are also toevah.

Also, Aura Cobalt, since you are of the Christian persuasion, it may interest you to know that neither Jesus nor any of the prophets condemn homosexuality, in fact, only seven verses of the Bible supposedly condemn homosexuality and these seven verses are dispersed through four books, the Book of Leviticus, the Letter from Paul to the Romans, the First Letter from Paul to the Corinthians and the First Letter from Paul to Timothy.

Now, Christianity does not recognise Levitical laws, and Jews generally don't practise them either because they prohibit round haircuts (those evil Beatles!), tattoos (even if they say "I LOVE GOD"), wearing garments of mixed fabrics (there goes your mixed-cotton/-polyester t-shirt), eating shellfish (no boiled lobster for you), playing with the skin of a pig (there goes American football), masturbation (no more long nights under the blanket) and any interruption to insemination during intercourse (so no condoms or pulling out there fellas). Of course, that in itself is irrelevant because the Levitical laws are only so-called "holiness laws", similar to wearing a purity ring and promising not to have sex until you are married or taking a vow of not drinking alcohol after your First Holy Communion. Disobeying Levitical laws is only a sin if you consciously promise to obey them in the first place.

Next we move on to the Letter from Paul to the Romans. First of all, it was written by Paul, who was an apostle, not a prophet and most certainly not Jesus, therefore its actual relevance to Christianity is debatable. Second of all, he does not actually condemn homosexuality, he condemns the perceived sexual depravity practised by the pagan priests and priestesses of Aphrodite, Diana and other fertility, passion and sex goddesses that he viewed while on his missionary tour of the Mediterranean. He does not condemn homosexuality itself but giving into lust of any kind.

I will combine the last two because they are so similar. Like all of Paul's letters, they're actual relevance to Christianity is debatable. Secondly, in these two, Paul was exasperated because the Corinthian Christians and the Ephesian Christians are fighting. Anti-gay Christians usually quote Paul quoting Levitical law in response to a question about how the two groups should treat each other.

However, they tend to ignore the fact that a few verses on, Paul then states that the two groups need to be reminded that they are under a new law and that they need only keep the six commandments of Jesus; Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBORS AS THYSELF.

Two words which Paul uses in the original Greek in a list of people who are not welcome in the Kingdom of Heaven that have never been fully translated are "malokois" and "arsenokoitai."

The closest that "malokois" has come to translation is "effeminate call boys" but even this one is not definite. So Paul says that male prostitutes are not welcome in heaven. He does not say homosexual male prostitutes, just male prostitutes. Let's not forget that a woman can hire a male escort just as easily as a man.

"Arsenokoitai" has never been translated, even to this day. But during the late 1950s, someone placed "homosexuals" as a translation of it in an English version of the Bible for the first time in history, despite the fact that no such word existed in Greek or even Hebrew. We may never know what "arsenokoitai" means but until we do, no one has the right to give it a meaning.

So as you can see, the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. You are allowing your own prejudices to interfere with your faith.
 
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