Homosexuality

[Blastoise Fortooate]

if I believed that homosexuality was perfectly normal I would have no explaination for significant portions of it

So? I haven't the slightest idea as to how the mind of an octopus works, but no matter how strangely the octopus acts, I don't write off their actions as a medical disorder. They're just being octopi, and there's nothing wrong with being an octopus no matter what any anti-cephalopod religion says.

 

[Autumn]

And I repeat: thanks for saying half the forum has a mental disorder.

I want to use so many words right now but I'd get banned for flaming.

 

[Aura Cobalt]

Any of various conditions characterized by impairment of an individual's normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning, and caused by social, psychological, biochemical, genetic, or other factors, such as infection or head trauma.

From this you could easily say homosexuality is or is not a mental disorder based on what you say is "normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning".

if God created it, doesn't that mean that it's good?

The only thing is that I don't believe God created homosexuality. Just like any other mental disorder. And really gay people don't offend me much at all. I know this must sound ignorant of me to most of you but I feel more sorry for them than offended by them. It's just what I believe.

@Leafpool: Sorry. Thanks for your opinion though. I don't mean to insult people, but just because I might be doesn't give me any reason to think otherwise. Like I said, mental disorders are not a person's fault. Or if you are trying to get me in trouble for trying to belittle people, I think any sensible moderator can see that I am only trying to argue a point. A thing which you have not done in two posts.

 

[Autumn]

@Leafpool: Sorry. Thanks for your opinion though. I don't mean to insult people, but just because I might be doesn't give me any reason to think otherwise. Like I said, mental disorders are not a person's fault. Or if you are trying to get me in trouble for trying to belittle people, I think any sensible moderator can see that I am only trying to argue a point. A thing which you have not done in two posts.

I think coming into a predominantly left-wing, atheist and bi/gay forum and saying you think that their way of life is wrong is pretty offensive, don't you?

And no, mental disorders are not a person's fault. Neither is homosexuality. I fail to see how one can group them into the same category.

I'm not trying to get you in trouble; I'm just pointing out the fact that your posts are really. fucking. offensive. I'm not trying to argue a point, either; I'm getting indignant because you're coming in here and telling us the fact that we like the same sex is a fucking mental problem.

And you should be feeling sorry for gays. They have to put up with shit from religious people like you who say that they're wrong or they're against God or whatever bullshit they've been force-fed.

 

[Flora]

From this you could easily say homosexuality is or is not a mental disorder based on what you say is "normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning".

As I stated before, who are you to say that something is or is not "normal"? this kind of stuff actually was normal in certain cultures; ancient Greece comes to mind. (pederasty: look it up)

and, uh, you do know that it's completely normal in the animal kingdom, right? please tell me how that can be considered unnatural.

The only thing is that I don't believe God created homosexuality. Just like any other mental disorder. And really gay people don't offend me much at all. I know this must sound ignorant of me to most of you but I feel more sorry for them than offended by them. It's just what I believe.

like leafpool said, you just insulted a lot of people here; that really hits home for me cause I have a couple of cousins who are lesbians and a friend who's bi.

assuming the "homosexuality is genetic" theory is true, can you please inform me of a definite mental disorder that's genetic?

 

[spaekle]

If God didn't create homosexuality and mental disorders, who did?

 

[departuresong]

it's not a mental disorder because you think it's one, much less because of a book written by intolerant, ignorant sheepherders.

Wishin' there was still a +rep button for posts like this.

If God didn't create homosexuality and mental disorders, who did?

Pre-emptive bullshit answer: the devil.

 

[Autumn]

so I'm a product of the devil because I have asperger's too.

Nice to know!

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

Enjoying the same sex does not render one incapable of recognizing things, having normal emotional responses or behaving in society. In fact, the overwhelming majority of gay people are not identifiable as gay until they say they are. What in the world do you mean?

 

[Flora]

so I'm a product of the devil because I have asperger's too.

Nice to know!

so now that we're adding stuff on mental disorders into this debate too, can i add something a bit off topic to the thread's main issue but mainly relating to the whole mental-disorder thing?

one of my friends has asperger's.

she is seriously the sweetest human being on the face of the planet. it's impossible to get mad at her simply for that fact.

if anyone says that homosexuality comes from the devil because it's a mental disorder, i will be one angry Flora.

 

[spaekle]

Pre-emptive bullshit answer: the devil.

That's the answer I'm expecting. But if that were the case, why didn't he just make Adam gay? God's Plan successfully cockblocked!

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

The fact of the matter is that there is literally nothing to *cure* in homosexuality since it doesn't stop gay people from doing anything except banging the opposite gender, and then we'd have to send all priests and asexuals to therapy as well, I suppose.

 

[Zuu]

god did not create homosexuality because homosexuality is evil, and we know that god does not do evil things (exodus 12:28, isaiah 13, numbers 31, and deuteronomy 3).

clearly, this means that satan created homosexuality, which eliminates any responsibility that god has for the matter, even though he must have created satan, since he was originally an angel.

i ask: is satan omnipotent? god, being omnipotent, should surely have been able to create a second omnipotent being. if he is, then satan must have been created for some special reason (why exalt him above other angels?); he must have also foreseen his rebellion and fall (since god is similarly omniscient).

the conclusion i draw from this reasoning is that god created satan in order to create evil, and so, really, in the end, a=b=c, god created evil and therefore god created homosexuality.

if satan is not omnipotent, then god either does not condemn homosexuality (and the bible is not literally god's word), god is not omnipotent (since he does not eradicate homosexuality as an evil), or god is dead (killed by satan? dun dun dunnn).

(if anyone sees gaps in my reasoning, please inform me. i am tired.)

tl;dr: biblical morality is illogical

 

[Aura Cobalt]

As I stated before, who are you to say that something is or is not "normal"? this kind of stuff actually was normal in certain cultures; ancient Greece comes to mind. (pederasty: look it up)

Funny how Greece and Rome were the main places the biblical references to homosexuality were directed. You can look up Romans 1:26-27 if you care.

and, uh, you do know that it's completely normal in the animal kingdom, right? please tell me how that can be considered unnatural.

Since when can animals not have mental disorders?

assuming the "homosexuality is genetic" theory is true, can you please inform me of a definite mental disorder that's genetic?

"Family-linkage and twin studies have indicated that genetic factors often play an important role in the development of mental disorders. The reliable identification of specific genetic susceptibility to particular disorders, through linkage or association studies, has proven difficult.[8][9] This has been reported to be likely due to the complexity of interactions between genes, environmental events, and early development[10] or to the need for new research strategies.[11] The heritability of behavioral traits associated with mental disorder may be greater in permissive than in restrictive environments, and susceptibility genes probably work through both "within-the-skin" (physiological) pathways and "outside-the-skin" (behavioral and social) pathways.[12] Investigations increasingly focus on links between genes and endophenotypes—more specific traits (including neurophysiological, biochemical, endocrinological, neuroanatomical, cognitive, or neuropsychological)—rather than disease categories."

There's the whole section from wikipedia from the article titled "Causes of mental disorders". It says it's difficult to prove, but it's a theory just as much as "homosexuality is genetic" is.

so I'm a product of the devil because I have asperger's too.

Nice to know!

By this logic I was a product of the devil when I had the flu. Yes I believe that mental disorders were invented by the Devil, but that's not what I believe it implies!

Enjoying the same sex does not render one incapable of recognizing things, having normal emotional responses or behaving in society. In fact, the overwhelming majority of gay people are not identifiable as gay until they say they are. What in the world do you mean?

I would argue that it does impair normal emotional and behavioral functioning.

The fact of the matter is that there is literally nothing to *cure* in homosexuality since it doesn't stop gay people from doing anything except banging the opposite gender, and then we'd have to send all priests and asexuals to therapy as well, I suppose.

Maybe we should send asexuals to therapy. I don't know.

 

[Lili]

I honestly think there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. I've got a gay great-cousin(with AIDS, btw), plenty of bi friends, and I even consider myself 'bi'.
And because of this one of my friends says I'm not a true Christian, 'because real Christians don't believe that sort of thing'. She even broke apart our friendship at one point of time because she found out I was bisexual and didn't want me to 'try to flirt or kiss her', which I've never done to her before.
Anyways, I have to admit, Aura Cobalt, that I will agree with a lot of other people here and say that you've offended quite a lot of us.

 

[Blastoise Fortooate]

I would argue that it does impair normal emotional and behavioral functioning.

In what way, exactly?

 

[Flora]

Since when can animals not have mental disorders?

...these are species-wide. not just random animals. it's normal for the entire species.

I would argue that it does impair normal emotional and behavioral functioning.

And I repeat:

who are you to determine what exactly is "the way things were meant to be"?

"normal" is entirely subjective. what's normal for you may not be normal for someone else.

you know something? maybe its normal for them.

 

[EvilCrazyMonkey]

Any of various conditions characterized by impairment of an individual's normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning, and caused by social, psychological, biochemical, genetic, or other factors, such as infection or head trauma.

From this you could easily say homosexuality is or is not a mental disorder based on what you say is "normal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning".

Homosexuality is not a mental disorder. I like penis. I know many heterosexual girls that like penis. Just because I have a penis does not give me a mental disorder.

Also, the abnormal cognitive, emotional, or behavioral functioning you're probably thinking about does not come from homosexuality itself but other people's reactions to homosexuality. I'm sure that gays may be emotionally or behaviorally different but not because they like certain sex organs. Being gay in a small, intolerant community will put a person on the defensive.

I don't really know enough about biochemistry or genetics (and neither does pretty much anyone), but the abnormal "functioning" could be caused by social or psychological factors. As said above, a small, enclosed society can make a gay person feel oppressed and inhuman, which may lead to psychological problems (that can be interpreted as "factors") such as hating oneself.

Homosexuality is not a mental disorder but rather it can have mental disorders sprout from it when people around gays act like jerks. I, for example, am probably suffering from some kind of depression, but I'm not suffering from homosexuality. So if you're going to blame anyone, blame the intolerant bigots that repress gay people.

 

[Aisling]

Augh. These last couple pages have totally made me rage.

Please compare:
How homosexuality has hurt people (any more than heterosexuality does)
How religion has hurt people

If there weren't some old books written by ancient desert tribes (that have only perpetuated for so long because, for the longest time, if you didn't say you believed in them you would be killed) for you to use to attempt justifying your beliefs, Aura Cobalt, you would be the odd one out for being intolerant and imposing your standards onto other people.

Let me say right now that the end of all religious practices is not what I want in particular; people can believe what they want (even if it makes them kind of stupid). Just like people who love who they want. It's when archaic rules based on religion are enforced upon even those who don't believe in that religion that I get pissed. It's when these archaic rules hurt people that I speak out.

Tell me, do you have any other reason besides "my religion says so" to be opposed to homosexuality as you are? And I won't take "It isn't right/natural because it doesn't make babies" either. The human race is not in danger of going extinct anytime soon due to a lack of reproduction.

And a last thing to consider; you guys already pick and choose what bits of the bible you believe in. I'm sure your family doesn't lock up your mother, sister, whoever while they're menstruating, or not allow them to touch anything; nor do I think your family actively avoid eating shellfish and the like. So why choose hate instead of love when it comes to sexuality?

 

[Autumn]

By this logic I was a product of the devil when I had the flu. Yes I believe that mental disorders were invented by the Devil, but that's not what I believe it implies!

Then what does it imply? If asperger's was created by the devil then what does that make me?