• Welcome to The Cave of Dragonflies forums, where the smallest bugs live alongside the strongest dragons.

    Guests are not able to post messages or even read certain areas of the forums. Now, that's boring, don't you think? Registration, on the other hand, is simple, completely free of charge, and does not require you to give out any personal information at all. As soon as you register, you can take part in some of the happy fun things at the forums such as posting messages, voting in polls, sending private messages to people and being told that this is where we drink tea and eat cod.

    Of course I'm not forcing you to do anything if you don't want to, but seriously, what have you got to lose? Five seconds of your life?

Lady Gaga

Derpy Hooves said:
I come bearing links. (Trigger warnings for cissexism.)
Transphobia in Lady Gaga's "Telephone" Video?,
Lady Gaga's vagina is offended, "I look like a transexual".

Take this as you will.
Click to expand...

I take this as her not wanting to be percieved as something that she isn't. I don't think it's offensive that I don't want to be called transgender or transsexual or intersex or something when I am obviously not. I doubt she meant any harm to anyone by saying she's definitely a woman and was born a woman. In fact, she even mentions transgender individuals in the same verse as gay, straight, bisexual, and lesbian people in "Born This Way." I personally don't believe she'd exclude anyone with the intention of harm to them psychologically or physically.
 
That's certainly possible, however saying that her 'vagina is offended' is a terrible way of 'proving' that she is not trans. Also insinuating that you can possibly look transsexual does not help.
 
That's true. I think she should have worded things more carefully, instead of saying things that could be taken as offensive without realizing how offensive they could sound.
 
Teh Ebil Snorlax said:
I've started warming up to Born This Way after the Grammys performance.

Also, Lady GaGa is definitely not transphobic.
Click to expand...

I don't feel like you can say she 'definitely' is or isn't transphobic without actually, well, knowing her. I mean, what reason do you have for saying she definitely is or isn't anything? Just the interviews she's made, some of which have been unfortunate, others less so.

Either way, she's made some cissexist remarks, which don't help the lgbt movement she has claimed as her own.
 
I'd like to think that Gaga is revolutionary or a great mainstream spokesperson for the LGBT community, and she has done quite a bit for it, I guess, but the fact remains that her music is just mostly very mediocre. Not to mention in interviews she more often than not seems a bit of an idiot.

Plus the whole 'chola' and transphobic business is a bit questionable. I don't understand why so many people I know like her, she doesn't actually seem that interesting. :(
 
Zodiac said:
That's true. I think she should have worded things more carefully, instead of saying things that could be taken as offensive without realizing how offensive they could sound.
Click to expand...

"You're white, black, beige, chola descent / You're Lebanese, you're Orient"

cough
 
I don't think she was trying to be offensive at all. In fact, being offensive would kind of be antithetical to the point of the song, hmm?
 
Not intentionally being offensive does not grant anything you say immunity from actually being considered offensive.
 
Yes, of course someone could take her lyrics offensively, but what would be the point? It's obvious she's very open-minded and supportive of the LGBT movement. As for the "chola" thing, all the word means is "a person of Mexican or Mexican-American descent who is associated with a particular Southwestern culture". There's nothing inherently offensive about it; only popular culture has demonized it. She obviously meant it as a synonym of "hispanic". So if no offense was meant, why take offense?
 
Aobaru said:
Yes, of course someone could take her lyrics offensively,
Click to expand...
As many already have...

Aobaru said:
As for the "chola" thing, all the word means is "a person of Mexican or Mexican-American descent who is associated with a particular Southwestern culture".
Click to expand...
Wikipedia says, "Cholo is an ethnic slur created by Hispanics (criollos) in the 16th century, and it has been applied to individuals of mixed American Indian ancestry, or other racially mixed origin." Or for a more streetwise interpretation, just read the urbandictionary definitions. Chola is far, far, far from objective or inoffensive.

Aobaru said:
There's nothing inherently offensive about it; only popular culture has demonized it. She obviously meant it as a synonym of "hispanic". So if no offense was meant, why take offense?
Click to expand...
It isn't difficult to tweak that argument to defend the use of the word n****r.

The big deal is that yes, she's open-minded and outspoken for the LGBT community, but these lyrics are using horribly closed-minded old-fashioned loaded stereotyping words as far as race goes. Being open-minded to one group does not automatically make a person open-minded to everyone, and it's even worse in this case because she presents herself as open-minded (and is, much more than a lot of people) but then she goes and writes this line.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of hers, and I love the song (except that line), but I think even if she didn't realize it, then somebody at some point in production should have pointed out, "Isn't this offensive? Isn't this counter to the entire point of the song?"

I have to ask, would you be offended if Martin Luther King, Jr. had used words like "fag" or "dyke" in his civil rights speeches? Because this is approximately the same thing, but with race and sexuality in opposite positions (and of course in popular music instead of politics).
 
"You're white, black, beige, chola descent / You're Lebanese, you're Orient"

to

"You're white, black, beige, mixed Indian descent / You're Lebanese, you're Orient"

???

Not defending her here, but you do need to keep in mind that it's hard to stay politically correct while writing a song.
 
Karkat Vantas said:
"You're white, black, beige, chola descent / You're Lebanese, you're Orient"

to

"You're white, black, beige, mixed Indian descent / You're Lebanese, you're Orient"

???

Not defending her here, but you do need to keep in mind that it's hard to stay politically correct while writing a song.
Click to expand...
Off the top of my head an online rhyming dictionary, "You're white, black, beige, you're Indian / You're Asian and you're Libyan".

Still has the problem of pointing out a specific country to represent part of the world (Lebanon =/= Middle East, Libya =/= Africa), which is another beef I have with that line, and it changes the reference from Hispanics to Indians (which, for the sake of my rapidly-deteriorating strawman argument, I'm assuming means India Indians instead of Native Americans), but it still rhymes.

Heck, why is she referring to "white" AND "beige"? Why not "You're beige, black, brown..."? That's quite a bit (although exactly how much is arguable) less offensive than "chola".

Hm. This post is moving further and further from my original point.
 
Tarvos said:
Is a better pop artist than everyone except Katy Perry. Because Katy Perry is the best. But Lady Gaga is a close second. I love that squirrel's hits.

(also discuss pop music here)
Click to expand...

Wow I didn't even see the original post.
In my opinion, this is the current hierarchy:
Lady Gaga > Ke$ha > Katy Perry > everyone else > Britney Spears

I also checked their average chart success, and I was very surprised to learn that Ke$ha is on average more successful than Katy Perry. Of course, this doesn't count Ke$ha's "Blow" or Katy Perry's "E.T." as both songs are still climbing the charts. (And Gaga is obviously far more successful than either of them.)


And on a more important note: I do now believe Lady Gaga should have chosen different lyrics for Born This Way and I do not agree with the lyrics. However, the song will remain one of my favorites given the fact it's music is still amazing and the message she is trying to convey comes across quite clearly even with it's lyrics; she did not intend to hurt anyone, obviously.
 
I honestly don't understand the appeal of Ke§ha because all she seems to do is publish auto-tuned vapid songs while looking like she rolled in glitter after not showering for several weeks.
 
Ke$ha's appeal lies in the fun, senseless lyrics and the fun dance music. Not all pop needs to be deep or meaningful, and she's a perfect example about how people often just want to have fun with music. Plus, she does have some much more meaningful songs, which are all her best songs. The problem is, she doesn't release them to radio.

The reason I don't like Katy Perry as much as I like Ke$ha is probably because of the time of year. If it were summer, Katy Perry would be my #2 favorite artist. But Lady Gaga is always #1.
 
Meh. Don't hate her, Just Dance is okay, I prefer *puts on sunglasses* CYNDI LAUPER!
 
Zodiac said:
Ke$ha's appeal lies in the fun, senseless lyrics and the fun dance music. Not all pop needs to be deep or meaningful, and she's a perfect example about how people often just want to have fun with music. Plus, she does have some much more meaningful songs, which are all her best songs. The problem is, she doesn't release them to radio.

The reason I don't like Katy Perry as much as I like Ke$ha is probably because of the time of year. If it were summer, Katy Perry would be my #2 favorite artist. But Lady Gaga is always #1.
Click to expand...

My one problem with Kay-Dollar Sign-Haahh is that her songs are AutoTuned beyond belief, when she actually has quite a good singing voice.

this topic has gone from 'lady gaga' to 'lady gaga, katy perry, ke$ha, and various other pop artists'
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom