TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 7]

[Dannichu]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

Keep in mind that even if both of them are telling the truth about the results they got, one or both of them may be screwy Investigation roles; common ones are Naive Cop (always gets Innocent), Paranoid Cop (always gets guilty) and Insane Cop (always gets the opposite of the truth).

Aaaaaah, this is interesting! Snorlax's information as Mysterious Informant was that "My information was the Police Are Useless, but are very consistently so.", so this could actually be correct. In some way. ???.

 

[Eifie]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

Keep in mind that even if both of them are telling the truth about the results they got, one or both of them may be screwy Investigation roles; common ones are Naive Cop (always gets Innocent), Paranoid Cop (always gets guilty) and Insane Cop (always gets the opposite of the truth).

Possibly, but in that case the only possible sanities (out of the ones I can think of) for newt are the Insane Cop and the Random Cop. The Random Cop is just annoying and I don't think newt would have gotten such a high ratio of innocent:mafia results if that was the case, and the Insane Cop would mean Vixie is actually innocent, which...is probably not true. Unless, of course, Butterfree's thought up some new kind of sanity.

Maybe newt could tell us, without saying the actual trope, if his role or power trope implies some sort of inaccuracies in his results? I doubt it, though.

ETA: And everyone else's posts have convinced me that we should lynch Vixie.

 

[Phoenixsong]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

Maybe newt could tell us, without saying the actual trope, if his role or power trope implies some sort of inaccuracies in his results? I doubt it, though.

Well, yeah, it's kind of the point of cop (and doc) sanities that you aren't told that you're potentially ineffective. Cop/doc sanities were created to act as a balance, and that effort would all be for naught if there were any hint that your role was unreliable. I guess you could make it part of the challenge that you have a sanity and need to figure out how to correctly interpret your results, as in a game like Dethy or something, but that's still not very helpful because one you realize you're any sanity other than insane (in which case you just know to flip your results) you just stop investigating because you know you'll never be helpful.

I did remember the "police are useless" remark when Jack mentioned possible cop sanities, but I'm wondering if standard sanities are really something Butterchuru would bother with in this game. First of all, apparently she dislikes them, and second, there are so many people and so many bizarre roles in play that I doubt you'd even need them for balance (that being really the only reason to use them, because otherwise they're just annoying). Perhaps they're useless in another way, one that's not related to common cop sanities? Vixie made up her stupid restriction, but that doesn't mean that actual investigators don't have one of some sort (they've already all but said they can't tell us how they know what they know).

 

[Clover]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

In the meantime. Midnight. Why are you abstaining, out of curiosity? (Same general question to anyone else who has abstained/is abstaining, but I'm too tired to go find who else is and see if they provided reasoning. If you gave a reason, assume the question doesn't apply to you.) Is it that you're willing to believe Vixie and see whether or not she can help, or is there some other reason? Because even if you can't tell us how you know what you know (and god damn it just because you people claim to be unable to share your tropes does not mean you have to sound like you're enjoying being so deliberately vague; it gives off mega anti-town vibes and is mostly hella irritating, so stop that), you can probably at least share that much. If your information's really that solid, shouldn't you be trying to convince us to follow your logic?

I kiiinda wanted to wait until 'tomorrow' to reveal other stuff... I actually have something interesting this time~~! so I want to live as long as possible :'( and also I am waiting for something but I don't know if it will show :|...

of course, if I've revealed enough to be a target, that plan will be counterproductive, eheh... I'll wait a bit, unless butterchuru wants to extend the hours.

I like Vixie! I believe that she is mafia-aligned, but she certainly makes the game interesting, moreso than a dozen other players at the moment. I'm willing to trust her! It's a personal failing, I'm aware.


ETA:

Maybe newt could tell us, without saying the actual trope, if his role or power trope implies some sort of inaccuracies in his results? I doubt it, though.

It kind of implies it, yes -- but on the other hand, he nailed me correctly. It's his business if he wants to say more, ehe.

 

[Whirlpool]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

So, uh, Midnight and newt are lovers? That seems a bit obvious from Midnight's post.

 

[Butterfree]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

Lupine Volt is found in a splatter of blood, having apparently been torn apart by dogs.

Okay, you know what? Fuck it. Lupine Volt was not torn apart by dogs. It was a blood-and-gore splatter, exactly like Dave Strider and Kusarigamaitachi; the dogs just came around to scavenge the pieces (and were 100% flavor). I was hoping this misconception would die once Dannichu had gotten it right in her recap, but apparently not. :/

I remember once butterfree saying in #mafia that she hated sanity roles...

To be precise, I hate when sanity roles render the inspector role pointless because you never know if your information is to be trusted or reversed or if it even means anything whatsoever.

Butterfree, can I ask a question? When a person dies and shows up as Mafia, can we take that to mean that they could communicate with each other privately?

You can take that to mean they're by all appearances a bona fide member of the, ahem, Legitimate Businessmen's Social Club. One would at least think members of a social club would socialize with one another.

Extension by 24 hours.

 

[shy ♡]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

I kiiinda wanted to wait until 'tomorrow' to reveal other stuff... I actually have something interesting this time~~! so I want to live as long as possible :'( and also I am waiting for something but I don't know if it will show :|...

of course, if I've revealed enough to be a target, that plan will be counterproductive, eheh... I'll wait a bit, unless butterchuru wants to extend the hours.

I like Vixie! I believe that she is mafia-aligned, but she certainly makes the game interesting, moreso than a dozen other players at the moment. I'm willing to trust her! It's a personal failing, I'm aware.


ETA:

It kind of implies it, yes -- but on the other hand, he nailed me correctly. It's his business if he wants to say more, ehe.

Okay... but since you've now made yourself a huge target, what happens if Vixie dies (which is most likely to happen regardless of your abstaining since the votes to lynch her outnumber the abstains), and during the night the Big Bad kills you? Then the innocents don't get your information.

What's most likely to happen is Vixie is lynched, mafia kills you during the night, and we don't get that information. :|

 

[Adriane]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

This is all incredibly entertaining.

Especially you, Minnow.

Who is, in fact, mafia. Oh, don't take my word for it. NWT, please inspect them tomorrow. You'll be glad you did.

And, uh, ultraviolet. If I am so concerned and desperate about living today, I wouldn't be voting for myself, would I? Also, I did discuss in length with opal about the overpoweredness of my role. He assured me it wasn't, and that I would enjoy it. Enjoy it, I did, and obviously it is not so overpowered now that I am about to die.

 

[Eifie]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

Okay, you know what? Fuck it. Lupine Volt was not torn apart by dogs. It was a blood-and-gore splatter, exactly like Dave Strider and Kusarigamaitachi; the dogs just came around to scavenge the pieces (and were 100% flavor). I was hoping this misconception would die once Dannichu had gotten it right in her recap, but apparently not. :/

So yes, the splatter of blood killing role does not require a trope! (Unless guesswork is allowed.) This is probably the Mafia don/Big Bad's way of killing, then. Or maybe the Mafia can choose between killing someone whose trope they know of or just going through with a regular kill. On the night that the three MIs died, there weren't any splatters of gore, so that seems possible. Maybe the trope-killing was a one-use power? Although it seems like a bit of a waste to use it on roles with no night action, in that case.

EDIT: You know, if Vixie was telling the truth about her role, the Mafia members who have no other way of getting rid of her would probably be the most outspoken about lynching her. Also, the fact that the Mafia haven't been able to get rid of Vixie suggests that there were only one Mafia doctor, so they couldn't deliberately kill her by overdose. Unless the Mafia doctors also weren't allowed to target her, I guess.

 

[Adriane]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

Again, Mawile has been the only player to have been stabbed in the back. I have chronic backstabbing disorder. Mafia killed nobody the night Mawile died. Why is this? Because I killed them before they could kill anyone.

How this is not conclusive proof I am telling the truth about my role is beyond me.

 

[Eifie]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

Again, Mawile has been the only player to have been stabbed in the back. I have chronic backstabbing disorder. Mafia killed nobody the night Mawile died. Why is this? Because I killed them before they could kill anyone.

How this is not conclusive proof I am telling the truth about my role is beyond me.

I thought night actions always go through unless they are roleblocked? Butterfree did say something to that effect in that Mafia rules post that's stickied, so I would assume she's GMing this game that way as well.

EDIT: Re: Vixie's accusation of Minnow, Walker (apparently randomly) nominated Minnow for lynching on the first day, and Superbird agreed that it seemed like a "fine choice". We still don't know if Superbird was actually on the Mafia's side or not, but that probably has some significance if we can figure out a bit more, I think.

While I agree that Superbird looks a bit suspicious, I, too, am disinclined to lynch it. At the same time I think that not lynching anyone is simply wasting a day. Going with a completely random lynch of Minnow seems fine to me, seeing as it's viewed the thread but hasn't posted (unless I missed it, but I don't think I did).

^It's posted, but I think that is a fine choice.

Minnow

Note that Superbird refuted Walker's reasoning for lynching Minnow, then voted for it anyway. He may have just been trying to save himself, but it seems a bit like he did want Minnow gone.

 

[Adriane]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

Ideally, I am to get Big Bad lynched during the day. This way, their successor still gets to kill an innocent during the night. If this fails, I have to do the deed myself, killing them off before they do their kill. Look at the night they died.

 

[Clover]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

So, uh, Midnight and newt are lovers? That seems a bit obvious from Midnight's post.

Nope! Not at all.

Okay... but since you've now made yourself a huge target, what happens if Vixie dies (which is most likely to happen regardless of your abstaining since the votes to lynch her outnumber the abstains), and during the night the Big Bad kills you? Then the innocents don't get your information.

What's most likely to happen is Vixie is lynched, mafia kills you during the night, and we don't get that information. :|

Aww... you're probably right. I'm very sad now. Okay. SORRY, person I was waiting for! Maybe if you had sent me more than one message I would be less impatient. :(

I have two things. Thing one: I can see the tropes and the usernames of people who target me! NWT inspected me... I think it was night zero? And Negrek also targeted me night zero. Dannichu never did anything; I just figured she was innocent. But she just as well could not be. I'm crazy like that.

I am kind of wary about thing two, but hell, why not go all the way...? Gonna die anyway, sob.

You see, I am the doctor who healed Superbird on night zero. Vixie is my backup plan to ensure TVTropes Mafia's lulz. If the mafia do not change their mind, this unique game will be lost. I must prevent that at any cost. Thus, I've deemed it necessary to cross the boundaries doctors usually respect. I happily accept the stigma of anti-town for this cause.

... yeah haha nobody will get that ever. POINT IS, I healed him, yes. Which made posts like this one absolutely fucking hilarious and I am still cracking up going back over it again. That was my entire point, really -- "for the lulz". So yeah, I count it as a victory.

Night zero I healed Vixie, and the next nights Negrek and Kratos. It didn't occur to me to heal NWT, but considering he wasn't a huge target before now... it all worked out. OH! And that thing Dannichu asked...

* Midnight thought sreservoir's death was subverted by Kratos.
If there was a discussion among Mafia who to kill, she would've known that Kratos was the target that night, and that something would've then had to have backfired in order for there to be no dead Kratos and a dead Mafia. This statement was made before Dave said he protected Kratos that night. This strikes me as rather suspicious, and nobody's mentioned it so far, so: why did you think this, Midnight?

Blame Butterfree. >3 First night I was waffling between healing 'Kratos Vixie Kratos Vixie they're both big targets so what if a doctor heals one of them but what if that's what the mafia thinks so they go after but then doctor would mafia friggin wifom D< SCREW IT what happens happens I HEAL KRATOS'

and butterfree was like '... ... Uh. Could you pick someone else, pretty please? I really want this thingy to happen how it was already planned to happen.'

so I was like '... how iiiiiinteresting. okey-dokey then, Vixie!'

and that
is what
went down.

/huff. WORDS. Okay so plans for the future! I will heal NWT. I know there are three doctors, or at least am more certain than normal, because Superbird's COD was blood-from-ears, and that is very likely to be dockill. ... Except for the frequency, like Dannichu said, but uh ignore that for now. Because it was also Tailsy's COD from last night, and I did not heal Tailsy, QED. One of you guys should out yourself to heal me, and then the hidden doctor heal that one.

Wait, that doesn't work if 1) the one who steps forward is actually mafia and lying to kill off a doctor or 2) there are more than three doctors (entirely possible) and they would kill off the outed doctor. CONUNDRUM! Of course in the case of number one and I died you could totally kill off whoever called doc, but hrmhrm.

I dunno I'm bad at this planning crud someone else think of something. I just feel so totally awesome that I can be helpful. Oh and I'm a magic doc, not a science doc, fwiw.

SO

TOTALLY

AWESOME

now other people go post so this can be the most so totally awesome game before I die

yay words!


ETA: ALSO PLANS: Considering I can see the tropes/names of anyone who targets me, if I am lucky enough to get one doctor to heal me and one mafia to kill me, I can totally work as an impromptu inspector. I can even clear the names of anyone who could 'target' me without harming me, if anyone wanted to do that! :D

 

[JackPK]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

Again, Mawile has been the only player to have been stabbed in the back. I have chronic backstabbing disorder. Mafia killed nobody the night Mawile died. Why is this? Because I killed them before they could kill anyone.

How this is not conclusive proof I am telling the truth about my role is beyond me.

I've only been reading somewhere slightly more motivated than casually yet nowhere near closely, but IIRC isn't this the only part of your claimed role that's been apparently proven? One part does not prove the other parts, and the entire thing as we've interpreted it is overpowered (unless there's a drawback clause involving, say, you making all sorts of wild extra claims about your role that would make it look like you're lying).

I thought night actions always go through unless they are roleblocked? Butterfree did say something to that effect in that Mafia rules post that's stickied, so I would assume she's GMing this game that way as well.

Nope, in the rules thread (although maybe it's been removed, I don't remember) there was a complex order-of-operations-of-night-actions in which somebody can kill somebody and thereby prevent their night action. So Vixie's point is plausible.

EDIT: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand ninja'd.

 

[Adriane]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

The inspection part of my role is essential to me finding Big Bad. I cannot kill anyone but Big Bad. Mafia history gives me clues as to what to expect and avoid, and just what the mafia is (or no longer) capable of doing.

And fine. I recruited Tailsy as part of my one-use subtrope. Up until now, she was my Exposition Fairy.

 

[Butterfree]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

In the stickied default mafia rules thread, people don't actually die until the end of the Midnight phase. However, just because I made a thread of mafia rules where death never prevents the execution of a night action does not mean I could not also run an experimental mafia game where death does prevent the execution of a night action, or some deaths prevent the execution of a night action. As I keep saying, don't assume anything here necessarily functions exactly like it does in standard mafia even if it involves analogous roles.

 

[Phoenixsong]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

You see, I am the doctor who healed Superbird on night zero. Vixie is my backup plan to ensure TVTropes Mafia's lulz. If the mafia do not change their mind, this unique game will be lost. I must prevent that at any cost. Thus, I've deemed it necessary to cross the boundaries doctors usually respect. I happily accept the stigma of anti-town for this cause.

... yeah haha nobody will get that ever. POINT IS, I healed him, yes. Which made posts like this one absolutely fucking hilarious and I am still cracking up going back over it again. That was my entire point, really -- "for the lulz". So yeah, I count it as a victory.

Still going to kick you in the teeth (though I guess apparently we're lucky that someone else was dumb enough to heal him and kill him regardless). I haven't punished you for making me doc ~again~ in AAMafia redux yet anyway, so. My righteous fury shall not be deterred!

(Did you choose to be a magicky doctor over sciencey, then, or did Butterfree assign that to you?)

What I actually came in here to say: Vixie, by any chance do you know whether you flip innocent or mafia when killed? Presumably mafia, since you said you have a social club card, but... 'Cause if it's the former then then uh well I was going to say we should go after Minnow next but you flipping innocent would really gnarl things up like whoa.

 

[Karkat Vantas]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

EDIT: in hindsight this post was sort of rude and i should not have said this

 

[Eifie]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

I can see the tropes and the usernames of people who target me! NWT inspected me... I think it was night zero? And Negrek also targeted me night zero. Dannichu never did anything; I just figured she was innocent. But she just as well could not be. I'm crazy like that.

So are you saying that Negrek and Dannichu have both targeted you, but nothing happened, and that's your reasoning for them being innocent? Also, how did you know that Dave Strider was telling the truth? Did he target you too?

You see, I am the doctor who healed Superbird on night zero. Vixie is my backup plan to ensure TVTropes Mafia's lulz. If the mafia do not change their mind, this unique game will be lost. I must prevent that at any cost. Thus, I've deemed it necessary to cross the boundaries doctors usually respect. I happily accept the stigma of anti-town for this cause.

... yeah haha nobody will get that ever. POINT IS, I healed him, yes. Which made posts like this one absolutely fucking hilarious and I am still cracking up going back over it again. That was my entire point, really -- "for the lulz". So yeah, I count it as a victory.

Night zero I healed Vixie, and the next nights Negrek and Kratos. It didn't occur to me to heal NWT, but considering he wasn't a huge target before now... it all worked out.

I'm assuming you mean you healed him (Superbird) on night one? So then the Mafia doctor probably healed Superbird, and that caused a healer clash. Hm. I wonder what the internal bleeding thing is, then. MAYBE the ear-bleeding thing means the healer clash included the Mafia doctor, while the internal bleeding means the healer clash included two (or more) innocent doctors?

Okay so plans for the future! I will heal NWT. I know there are three doctors, or at least am more certain than normal, because Superbird's COD was blood-from-ears, and that is very likely to be dockill. ... Except for the frequency, like Dannichu said, but uh ignore that for now. Because it was also Tailsy's COD from last night, and I did not heal Tailsy, QED. One of you guys should out yourself to heal me, and then the hidden doctor heal that one.

And if the Mafia doctor is still alive, and heals either you or NWT? One of you would die of healer clash, wouldn't you? I thought that was what happened to Walker, actually. BUT ANYWAY. If you didn't heal Tailsy, and Vixie was telling the truth about Tailsy's role and Tailsy couldn't heal herself, that would mean there were at least four doctors.

Also, I don't think the frequency of bleeding from the ears necessarily means that it's not likely for all those to be cases of overdose. The other two who died from bleeding out of the ears (Walker and Tailsy) would both have been good targets for doctors. Since we were trying to figure out a way to heal Walker, the Mafia doctor could easily have targeted him that night to kill him by overdose. In Tailsy's case, it's possible that the Mafia doctor healed her and then an innocent doctor healed her as well. Tailsy can't have been the only Mafia doctor, because IIRC one of the Mysterious Informants got the information about there being a back-alley doctor (or something) when the game started - before she would have been targeted by the Mysterious Employer. Well, that's assuming that that meant a Mafia doctor, anyway.

 

[Clover]

Re: TV Tropes Mafia [DAY 5]

Still going to kick you in the teeth (though I guess apparently we're lucky that someone else was dumb enough to heal him and kill him regardless). I haven't punished you for making me doc ~again~ in AAMafia redux yet anyway, so. My righteous fury shall not be deterred!

(Did you choose to be a magicky doctor over sciencey, then, or did Butterfree assign that to you?)

What I actually came in here to say: Vixie, by any chance do you know whether you flip innocent or mafia when killed? Presumably mafia, since you said you have a social club card, but... 'Cause if it's the former then then uh well I was going to say we should go after Minnow but you flipping innocent would really gnarl things up like whoa.

I had no choice in the matter, but I really adore my trope/power combination. It's pretty much exactly what I ask for when I Just Want To Be Special. I've been calling myself Katara. :3

'Dumb enough'... :( I prefer my interpretation of lulzyawesome better.

Speaking of which! I will change my vote from abstain to Minnow sure! (Trust, personal failing, lulz, you get my motives.)