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Homosexuality
- Thread starter Furretsu
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Harlequin
Active member
At the end of the day it really boils down to this: some people think God is real (and by extension that the Bible is rather more than a quaint book of stories and rules that people used to live by) and so they dislike homosexuality.
In a modern world we should not adhere to the rules of any religion but rather rules of morality and equality that actually make sense. I'm not sure if you've noticed but most of the world has stopped stoning people. Freedom of religion should also mean freedom from religion because it hinders the growth of humanity in general but also stops equality from happening.
EDIT: oh yeah the "theory" of evolution doesn't mean the same thing as "my theory that all cats are actually dogs." A scientific theory means "k guys think of this as a fact because um there's actually no better explanation and all the evidence we've found points to this so uh yeah it's fact but we guess there's a possibility something better might come along but it probably won't."
In a modern world we should not adhere to the rules of any religion but rather rules of morality and equality that actually make sense. I'm not sure if you've noticed but most of the world has stopped stoning people. Freedom of religion should also mean freedom from religion because it hinders the growth of humanity in general but also stops equality from happening.
EDIT: oh yeah the "theory" of evolution doesn't mean the same thing as "my theory that all cats are actually dogs." A scientific theory means "k guys think of this as a fact because um there's actually no better explanation and all the evidence we've found points to this so uh yeah it's fact but we guess there's a possibility something better might come along but it probably won't."
GameFreakerZero
The hypest
Why? Why would the almighty guy in the sky make some people have homosexual tendencies just so that they couldn't express them?
"The Bible is not a scientific textbook" is the most important part of this sentence. Remember it for later, it's important.
The Bible is a book. If you seriously need to depend on someone else telling you how to interpret it you're doing it wrong.
But didn't you say that the Bible wasn't a scientific textbook? A theory means an idea that's supported by evidence that can be observed, which is what evolution is. Meanwhile God is an idea that's supported by nothing other than faith, and it continues to confuse me why people would choose an unproven, immaterial guy in the sky over a well researched and highly supported theory.
Don't tell me it's "just a theory" when God may as well be considered fiction by the amount of 'evidence' supporting him.
If everyone in the world thought love didn't have to involve sex then the human race wouldn't exist.
=D
And you still haven't convinced me that that last line is right.
Eevee
usually right
No, you're not. You aren't debating at all. You're ignoring most of what your opponents are saying and just making more and more unfounded claims that don't even make sense from a Christian perspective half the time.
I'm not going to do your work for you. If you have an argument and you want to convince someone of it, do so. Don't tell me "well I'm right, but I can't be buggered to tell you why, so go spend $20 and a few hours working out why you're wrong on your own".
Yes, and yours is incorrect.
But, again, even from a Christian perspective, your logic is painfully flawed.
You may consider this the "don't call me evil and then not bother to back it up" club.
Don't give me this "ooooo last days look it's coming true" crap either. People have always been interested in making themselves feel good. We wouldn't eat or reproduce if we didn't pursue pleasure.
Where does the Bible say it's bad? What does "bad" mean in this context? Why do I care? And what does this have to do with morality?
Please cite the Bible verse indicating that OT rules are not meant for individuals. I cannot fathom what sort of government needs to be told to sacrifice doves when it gets its period.
God hates a lot of things. Like shaving. Or planting two crops in one field.
God also rewarded a man who offered his daughters to be raped by an entire town. And destroyed a man who worshiped him completely. And used human sacrifice as a test of loyalty. And of course burns people in hell forever if they happen to grow up not hearing about him.
I fail to see how this creature is an adequate source of moral guidance.
Have you given up lying? Lust? Greed? Pride? Do you hate your parents, as Jesus says you must? Do you honor your parents completely 24/7? How do you do both, exactly? Do you avoid working on the Sabbath?
Or is it just easy to condemn a group of people trying to cheerfully live their lives, as long as you don't have to deal with them, while you do whatever you want and assume God will overlook it all?
Sawdust, beam, etc.
You have no idea what a theory is. The atomic model is a theory. How gravity works is a theory. Quantum mechanics is a theory. Large gigantic chunks of science are theories. "Theory" does not mean "something we made up"; it is a model based on mounds of evidence that can make predictions, has not been shown to be grossly flawed, but due to its nature cannot be deductively proven. A mature scientific theory is treated as fact.
Frankly, a theist pulling out "cannot be proven" is the height of hypocrisy.
Hit puberty, get in a relationship, have sex, and then stay with the person and never do it again. Then you can preach to me.
I am disgusted that you would claim moral high ground while telling certain groups of people that they cannot have relationships because it's wrong. Not even for any actual reason, but because your fairy tale of choice arbitrarily dictates it so.
I am also rather irritated that you consistently refuse to acknowledge or answer anything I say. You seem to be wildly grasping for any straw that will back you up, even though you have no actual reason for having a problem with homosexuality. Presumably you were just instilled with it is wrong or find it gross or whatever, and now you're backpedaling and finding excuses. It's offensive, socially immature, and ultimately a complete waste of energy. Stop hating people for no reason. The Bible is a mess of nonsensical rules; I would advise you to not try to use it to defend whatever existing prejudice you have.
Regardless, you should probably develop some empathy and figure out how you'd feel if I told you something about you is fundamentally wrong because the Great Eevee in the Sky says so.
Alexi
The Religion section is now a joke
Evolution can be observed today, you know. The AIDS virus evolves to become resistant to the drugs that are meant to kill it. Hey, look, it's proven right there. :D
Sex is a healthy part of life, as well as a means of uniting with one's partner. Sure, it's not the only good thing. Poptarts and Hot Pockets are good too, but if I had to choose, I'd choose the sex. :) Plus, what's so wrong with expressing love, no matter who it's between? Regardless of God or any religion, why stop two people from being happy?
Time Psyduck
I can see the ending
First off all, when I get 10 or so posts I cannot respond to every point made.
I do not deny that organisms change and adapt, but an AIDs virus is still an aids virus, a dog is still a wolf. The change between diferent 'kinds' of organisms has not been proven.
Many of the OT rules are the law code for the isrealites when they were living in a sepatate country. Many still apply, but the fact that Jesus died removes the animal sacrifice, for example.
The book I have refered you two is actually free, and the people who distribute it will come knocking on your door. It also explains what the bible catually teaches. It isn't needed, but it shows what is and isn't in the bible (a lot of people think things are in that aren't and vice versa).
Leviticus 11:13-19
These are the Flying Creatures you are to detest and not eat because they are detestable: the eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat.
The bible has been translated in various different ways. Also this was for the common Jewish person, and when our classification system is about 3000 years away this makes sense to somone of below average intelligence.
I do not deny that organisms change and adapt, but an AIDs virus is still an aids virus, a dog is still a wolf. The change between diferent 'kinds' of organisms has not been proven.
Many of the OT rules are the law code for the isrealites when they were living in a sepatate country. Many still apply, but the fact that Jesus died removes the animal sacrifice, for example.
The book I have refered you two is actually free, and the people who distribute it will come knocking on your door. It also explains what the bible catually teaches. It isn't needed, but it shows what is and isn't in the bible (a lot of people think things are in that aren't and vice versa).
Leviticus 11:13-19
These are the Flying Creatures you are to detest and not eat because they are detestable: the eagle, the vulture, the black vulture, the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl, the screech owl, the gull, any kind of hawk, the little owl, the cormorant, the great owl, the white owl, the desert owl, the osprey, the stork, any kind of heron, the hoopoe and the bat.
The bible has been translated in various different ways. Also this was for the common Jewish person, and when our classification system is about 3000 years away this makes sense to somone of below average intelligence.
hopeandjoy
yan ya yan ya yaa iii yaaa
That's fine.
Actually, dogs are a completely different species. Just like how pigs are different from wild boars. And yes, it has. Well, it has heavy proof. Fossils, carbon dating, and DNA testing, oh my! Also, our extra organs, for somethings.
If you say so~
When people come to my door, my mom just tells them we're Catholics. They run off. (For the record, only my mom and my sister are.) Besides, it's just a book. For converting people. And being stupid with.
But we're off topic now, aren't we?
Being Gay is fine. [/thread]
Time Psyduck
I can see the ending
In genesis, it says that organisms reproduce acording to thier kinds. This is different to the scientific term species. Kind implies bat, dog/wolf, finch and can cover multiple species.
Many of the comments I would make will be put a lot better in the book, so why would you want to here it badly put over the internet as opposed to hearing it well said in a book that costs nothing and can be read when you can't reach the computer
Many of the comments I would make will be put a lot better in the book, so why would you want to here it badly put over the internet as opposed to hearing it well said in a book that costs nothing and can be read when you can't reach the computer
hopeandjoy
yan ya yan ya yaa iii yaaa
=D
GameFreakerZero
The hypest
A species isn't a scientific term, it's an observation that notes what animals can breed with each other to create fertile offspring.
I'd request Bible readers to try and understand reality before they start attempting to claim that a theory that has a huge amount of evidence and observation linked to it is 'just a theory' because their fairy tale says something else.
We don't have people knocking on our doors to sell Jeebus in England. Explain your points or don't debate, simple as that.
- Pronoun
- he/him
Time Psyduck
I can see the ending
The point is the bible says that a dog won't turn into a cat, not that a greater pygme geen whatever won't become a lesser green pygme whatever. I understand the theory of evolution, however it is not complete and there are a number of gaps in the fossil record. Speciation is not the same thing as evolution. When the creation account mentions days it means periods of reations (it's symbolic) not literaly 24 hours
And people do knock on doors regarding religion in the UK (They do in almost all the world). Trust me, I also live in England. You must be getting missed by them (That or your perents have told them not to visit)
OrngSumb
Coulda Had A V8
Time Psyduck I'm gonna fight you with your own game.
*whips out mini bible from Christmas*
John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
I bolded a word for you to remember.
You're God loves the world. Going off of what you said the world holds all of His creations. So He must love all of his creations.
He must have created homosexuals. But if he doesn't love them then why did he create them? Did he do it just to laugh at them or something? Answer that one for me.
*whips out mini bible from Christmas*
John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
I bolded a word for you to remember.
You're God loves the world. Going off of what you said the world holds all of His creations. So He must love all of his creations.
He must have created homosexuals. But if he doesn't love them then why did he create them? Did he do it just to laugh at them or something? Answer that one for me.
Time Psyduck
I can see the ending
He didn't create homosexuals, homosexuality is a result of imperfection, which was caused by the rebellion of Adam and Eve. The jewish law code defines homosexuality as a crime, therefore god opposes it.
(and before everyone goes off about it being mythology I am responding to a quote from the bible with othr biblical evidence.)
(and before everyone goes off about it being mythology I am responding to a quote from the bible with othr biblical evidence.)
OrngSumb
Coulda Had A V8
Judaism =/= Christianity.
Used to but not now.
And the rebellion of Adam and Eve caused them to get kicked out of a garden. It's not like Adam turned around and started screwing some guy and Eve started making out with a girl.
And if homosexuality = imperfection then 10% of America alone = imperfection.
I don't remember UK's percent but I know it was much higher than 10%
GameFreakerZero
The hypest
There are gaps in the fossil record because not everything gets fossilised. What we do have, however, seems to point to evolution as the answer to how animals got to what they are today. DNA evidence seems to point to exactly the same sort of thing.
My explanation on what species are was simply a way of saying that your example from Genesis was redundant and wrong.
They seem to be missing me.
Regardless, if you can't put what you've gathered from your Jeebus book into words, we can only gather that you yourself have gathered nothing. Put it into words or stop saying how great it is.
Time Psyduck
I can see the ending
Homosexuality is mentioned negativly in the new testament as well.
The changes didn't happen overnight, slowly people moved away from perfection. (In genesis there are people who lived nearly a millenium). Also there weren't any other people anyway. The only other people who were around in their lifetime were thier decendants (I'm sure other people on here would find that disturbing)
Everyone's imperfect, homosexuality is just one aspect of this. (Have you seen my spelling in this thread?)
Vladimir Putin's LJ
your blood flows through my veins
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