Homosexuality

[nyuu]

It is the job of a teacher to teach. Kids learn very early on that when they get older, sometimes boys and girls get married and maybe have kids. Kids should learn at the same time that sometimes girls and girls, or boys and boys will get together and maybe have kids. mm?

 

[#1 bro]

No, I'm just trying to find out why one is okay but the other isn't. Tell me why.

 

[opaltiger]

Okay, so are you going to show the kids in your class a children's book on why there probably is no god, because until now, little kids have been indoctrinated with the idea, perpetuated by countless childrens' books, that god is real?

I have no idea which children's books you read as a child, but the ones I did certainly never indicated the existence (or lack thereof) of a god. But yes, I would definitely be opposed to a book that treats god's existence as fact. The rest of your analogy breaks down; I don't want books that insist on samesex couples as the ideal of family life. I want books that acknowledge the fact that the term 'family' is much, much broader than commonly believed. I want books that reflect the reality of modern society. I assume you're now going to tell me that modern society includes religious belief. Quite true. But I don't necessarily want books that explain to kids that god probably doesn't exist (though I would have no problem with them); I want books that ignore the subject entirely. I imagine the effect would be much the same.

Are you going to show the kids in your class a children's book on why anarchy is a good political philosophy because until now, little kids have been indoctrinated with the idea, perpetuated by countless childrens' books, that the US government is wholly beneficial and good? I could go on.

You're committing the fallacy of the excluded middle. Yes, I certainly wouldn't want children being taught that the US government is wholly beneficial and good. Why would that mean I want to teach children that anarchy is awesome? Also you are vastly overestimating the content of children's books.

No, I'm just trying to find out why one is okay but the other isn't. Tell me why.

Because one is a lie and one isn't. The idea that couples are always heterosexual is simply false. I honestly cannot comprehend why you would oppose books which tried to present the issue of family as broad and diverse. This is how social change works! Unless people are taught from childhood that homosexuality is nothing out of the ordinary, there will be homophobia.

Let me simplify. I don't want kids being taught as certain things that simply aren't. "Couples are always heterosexual" is obviously false. "God exists" is uncertain. "Anarchy is a good political system" is uncertain. "Families can be formed in ways other than by one man and one woman, for example by two women or two men" is a fact of the society we live in. See the difference?

 

[#1 bro]

Yeah, that makes sense.

However, I feel like there is a difference between the "in theory" reason to incorporate this book into the curriculum and the "in actuality" reason. (or the idealistic reason and the cynical reason if those terms work better for you)

In theory: Like you said, the teacher simply wants to show that sometimes, two members of the same sex form a long term relationship, just like how they always have a kid with a wheelchair in the math textbooks to show that no, not everybody in the world has use of their legs.

In actuality: The teacher is a diehard liberal with Big Ideas and wants to implement these ideas in his or her classroom.

Do you see what I trying to say?

 

[ultraviolet]

In actuality: The teacher is a diehard liberal with Big Ideas and wants to implement these ideas in his or her classroom.

er, how often does this happen? isn't this just a little unrealistic? how is it any different from die-hard conservatives giving children books about heterosexual families?

 

[Superbird]

Honestly, I think these things should be taught in school. To all christian counter-arguments: If God doesn't approve of Homosexuals, then why did he create them in the first place?

 

[opaltiger]

In theory: Like you said, the teacher simply wants to show that sometimes, two members of the same sex form a long term relationship, just like how they always have a kid with a wheelchair in the math textbooks to show that no, not everybody in the world has use of their legs.

In actuality: The teacher is a diehard liberal with Big Ideas and wants to implement these ideas in his or her classroom.

Do you see what I trying to say?

Not really, since I don't see the difference between your two scenarios. You're just phrasing it more aggressively the second time.

 

[1. Luftballon]

Honestly, I think these things should be taught in school. To all christian counter-arguments: If God doesn't approve of Homosexuals, then why did he create them in the first place?

to all who believe omnipotent gods who created the world: why did it create anything it disapproves of.

 

[Dark Shocktail]

I'd totally buy that book for my kid. Hell, I don't think it's been banned in the UK...

Also, I am actually writing a book with a gay couple as two of the predominate main characters. I'm not looking to encourage kids to be gay or teach that it's the 'new kewl thing' on the block. I made the characters, they so happen to be gay and in a relationship, it doesn't change who they are and if one was a girl, none of the plot points would change. I'm just looking to show that there are gay people around and that their sexuality doesn't define them.

 

[Pwnemon]

er, how often does this happen? isn't this just a little unrealistic?

Quite, quite often in colleges, conservative students will fail courses because of their political views.

how is it any different from die-hard conservatives giving children books about heterosexual families?

Because, yet again, the whole point of those other books is not to make a political statement.

Also, to answer your former question, that's happened to me once in the past. A girl asked me out, who, in my opinion, was an annoying camwhore, so I calmly rejected.

 

[Adriane]

Quite, quite often in colleges, conservative students will fail courses because of their political views.

And you know this how? If a professor failed a student because of political views they'd get sacked.

Because, yet again, the whole point of those other books is not to make a political statement.

It's not even a political statement, it's a fucking humanitarian statement. There are conservatives who support LGBT rights.

 

[Harlequin]

Quite, quite often in colleges, conservative students will fail courses because of their political views.

Can you back this up with hard evidence or is this merely an extreme and anecdotal statement?

Because, yet again, the whole point of those other books is not to make a political statement.

"LGBT people exist and are actually a normal type of family these days" isn't political, it's factual.

 

[Dark Shocktail]

Pwnemon, I /remember/ as a kid people would try and give me books promoting Christianity. There are lots of books written specifically to make a statement about certain ways of life, promoting one as 'right' and dismissing the others as being wrong. I had the displeasure of reading a book which insinuated that all kids raised by only one parent would become troublemakers and that only nuclear families work. Thankfully I was old enough to know at the time that the message was a load of rubbish, and when I was younger my mum would be careful about what she gave me to read.

 

[#1 bro]

Not really, since I don't see the difference between your two scenarios. You're just phrasing it more aggressively the second time.

you are too good at this game...

I guess you are all right and there isn't really anything wrong with showing this book in the classroom. Although I still wouldn't do it myself.

 

[Crazy Linoone]

I guess you are all right and there isn't really anything wrong with showing this book in the classroom. Although I still wouldn't do it myself.

But, why? It's just a cute story book about penguins.

I can see the problem if you show this book and only this book in the classroom, but if you show other "normal" books along with it, I don't see the problem.

 

[ultraviolet]

Quite, quite often in colleges, conservative students will fail courses because of their political views.

I doubt that this is any more true than left-wing students failing their classes due to their political views. Besides, this isn't really relevant to the question I was asking, and it would do you really goddamn well to actually cite wild general claims like this. it is infuriating that you're going to make a claim like that without backing it up.

Because, yet again, the whole point of those other books is not to make a political statement.

what, so you don't think that a conservative giving out books about heterosexual marriage is a political statement, but a left-wing giving out books about homosexual marriage is? that doesn't really make sense, does it? how are lgbt couples even a political statement? There's a family of six in the house across the road from me, and the two parents are lesbians. I know for a fact that they don't give a shit about politics.

Also, to answer your former question, that's happened to me once in the past. A girl asked me out, who, in my opinion, was an annoying camwhore, so I calmly rejected.

you didn't answer my question, really. You stated that being asked out by a homosexual guy would make you uncomfortable; would it be as uncomfortable if you were asked out by a woman you weren't attracted to?

you seem to make sweeping generalisations without actually exploring the argument; when anybody questions your ideas, you cop out with a fairly biting statement with nothing to back it up. and then someone calls you out on it and you do it again. you are incredibly annoying in this way; I respect your opinions and I'd like to discuss these things with you. and you know what, you're probably going to ignore this anyway!

 

[guizel the human buizel]

i believe it should be but then i would ;)

not just gay human wise male pokemon too sexy

 

[Tarvos]

I am baffled.

 

[Karkat Vantas]

I am baffled.

I am reminded of "Homosexuality is bad! That was random."

 

[...]

Finally, a Yahoo article that actually supports homosexuality.

Of course, that leaves nothing to be said about many of the comments. :x