Racism & Other Prejudices

[Whirlpool]

But that's my point; "Jew" has been historically used pejoratively. I probably should have used another word, but my point still stands.

Edit: Ninja'd.

 

[Lord of the Fireflies]

Responding to the OP:

I think people are getting very mad with the tolerance thing. You say you have zero tolerance for intolerance, and therefor you are intolerant yourself.

I actually quite like fooling around about people's differences (as long as they are okay with it) and I don't mind people fooling around about my differences either. Precision: I don't mock people's differences, I fool around. Subtle but important difference here. I never exaggerate, though. As long as everybody is fine with it and stays cool, you can say what pleases you. Also, my friends and me frequently use those pejorative terms as nicknames. For example: we call one of our friend "Jew". He is not Jewish. He doesn't have an exceptionally long nose or whatever Jewish people are mocked for, but has that very weird habit of counting money all the time, and it's ok.

I know Jewish people are not more inclined to like money than other people, however they grew with that reputation, and now it is like that. When we nicknamed him "Jew", we weren't insulting Jewish people or my friend himself, the nickname was just a wonderful discovery and everybody has fun using, even a guy who is actually Jewish, because it's a thousand times better to make fun of those prejudices rather than become all bitter because of it.

Also, I'd like to note how I despise people who use the fact that they are different from the majority as an excuse. Example:

A random black dude (let's call him Scaramouche just for fun) fools around being a generic douchebag. He could be white or Latino or Asian or whatever, the important point is that he's a douche. I personally don't have any problems with douches, but the point is he starts insulting one of my friends for no reason. Now, as I don't like seeing my friends being insulted in my face, I respond quite aggressively.

The guy answers saying "You say that because I'm BLACK" or other lame excuse for me insulting him. Now that makes me furious. I don't insult you because you're black, I insult you because you're a retarded asshole. Be you black or white or latino or asian you're still a mean person and now that's a problem.

tl;dr I dislike people who take intolerance too seriously or abuse the fact that they are a minority as an excuse for their stupidity.

 

[Aletheia]

Be you black or white or latino or asian you're still a faggot and now that's a problem.

Erm... might want to rethink your choice of words there.

 

[Michi]

Be you black or white or latino or asian you're still a faggot and now that's a problem.

Erm... might want to rethink your choice of words there.

I agree, SomeGuy.

I actually quite like fooling around about people's differences (as long as they are okay with it) and I don't mind people fooling around about my differences either. Precision: I don't mock people's differences, I fool around. Subtle but important difference here. I never exaggerate, though. As long as everybody is fine with it and stays cool, you can say what pleases you. Also, my friends and me frequently use those pejorative terms as nicknames. For example: we call one of our friend "Jew". He is not Jewish. He doesn't have an exceptionally long nose or whatever Jewish people are mocked for, but has that very weird habit of counting money all the time, and it's ok.

I know Jewish people are not more inclined to like money than other people, however they grew with that reputation, and now it is like that. When we nicknamed him "Jew", we weren't insulting Jewish people or my friend himself, the nickname was just a wonderful discovery and everybody has fun using, even a guy who is actually Jewish, because it's a thousand times better to make fun of those prejudices rather than become all bitter because of it.

So you're saying that, because this person is not actually Jewish and because an actual Jewish person has no problem with calling the former "Jew," it is excusable in any way? While I've noticed that "Jew" is quite commonly used simply as a shortened term for "Jewish person," the history of the word "Jew" isn't a very good one. It was commonly used as a racial slur (much like "nigger," another word I'd prefer were used far less often) during the Holocaust as seventeen million Jewish people were murdered in what was the largest genocide in human history. It's not okay to use it in an manner other than the intended manner, a shortening of "Jewish person," which you say he is not.

Also, I'd like to note how I despise people who use the fact that they are different from the majority as an excuse. Example:

A random black dude (let's call him Scaramouche just for fun) fools around being a generic douchebag. He could be white or Latino or Asian or whatever, the important point is that he's a douche. I personally don't have any problems with douches, but the point is he starts insulting one of my friends for no reason. Now, as I don't like seeing my friends being insulted in my face, I respond quite aggressively.

The guy answers saying "You say that because I'm BLACK" or other lame excuse for me insulting him. Now that makes me furious.

I'm sure we all dislike these people, but that won't excuse your next little offering:

I don't insult you because you're black, I insult you because you're a mentally retarded asshole. Be you black or white or latino or asian you're still a faggot and now that's a problem.

This line alone has to be the most offensive thing said on TCoD, and is definitely the most offensive thing I've read in my year here, regardless of your intended meaning.

tl;dr I dislike people who take intolerance too seriously or abuse the fact that they are a minority as an excuse for their stupidity.

While I'm sure (as I already stated) that we all dislike people who use the state of being a minority as an excuse for general idiocy and/or douchebaggery, intolerance itself is a serious issue and must to be treated as such.

 

[Eloi]

no, i doubt it. the word: inherently meaningless. it becomes meaningful after people use it with a certain intention in mind. conclusion: the word doesn't continue negative connotations, people do.

I know, hence, people of the minority can use the world, people who aren't probably shouldn't.

in other words, get rid of racists, not vocabulary.

also, i don't really understand what you're saying in that last sentence.

I'll be more specific then: "Why can't I call trans* people 'tranny'? Some call each other that! Hence, its perfectly okay for me to use it."

I've seen this 'defense' many, many times. (Cite: http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#playfair )

 

[Zuu]

I know, hence, people of the minority can use the world, people who aren't probably shouldn't.

... don't you see that this "you can't use these words, only THEY can" mentality is more racist than the words themselves?

I'll be more specific then: "Why can't I call trans* people 'tranny'? Some call each other that! Hence, its perfectly okay for me to use it."

I've seen this 'defense' many, many times.

so, call the people who are okay with it 'tranny', but not people who would be offended by it. social skills.

 

[Aobaru]

Be you black or white or latino or asian you're still a faggot and now that's a problem.

Did it never occur to you while responding (1) in a thread called "Racism and Other Prejudices" and (2) on a forum that's pretty much 100% QUILTBAG that hmm, maybe it's not such a good idea to use a slur that's been demeaning gay people for decades? Did it ever occur to you that maybe that same slur has been used to marginalize and demean myself and other members of this forum? Did it ever occur to you that hundreds, if not thousands, of kids kill themselves every year because of bullies who use that word? Did you think we'd all be okay with it?

 

[Eloi]

... don't you see that this "you can't use these words, only THEY can" mentality is more racist than the words themselves?

Can't you see that you are completely missing the power dynamics involved?

so, call the people who are okay with it 'tranny', but not people who would be offended by it. social skills.

But how do you ask? How do you know until you do?

Answer: Don't ever, just to be safe.

 

[shy ♡]

no, i doubt it. the word: inherently meaningless. it becomes meaningful after people use it with a certain intention in mind. conclusion: the word doesn't continue negative connotations, people do.

in other words, get rid of racists, not vocabulary.

also, i don't really understand what you're saying in that last sentence.

No. The word does gain connotation, and unless you are a person from whatever minority the word is being used against, you have no voice as to whether it should be used or not. Continuing to use it goes against your point that 'racists shouldn't exist'. If you are white, you are the oppressor.

I give an example. Queer used to be an oppressive word. It is not anymore. The reason being it was reclaimed. This cannot happen if there is no differentiation between the minority and the oppressor. If you are not black, you cannot say the n word, even in a debate about it. Stop saying it. Saying it here does not give you an excuse.

Jew would be another example, where anyone can say it because we've reclaimed it.

... don't you see that this "you can't use these words, only THEY can" mentality is more racist than the words themselves?

No. Races exist. Pretending they don't exist is not going to eliminate them. Respect people of colour and what they say, that is the point. Not, 'pretend people of colour don't exist! Do what you want! Yay freedom of speech and screw whoever is offended!'

so, call the people who are okay with it 'tranny', but not people who would be offended by it. social skills.

Okay, I am offended just because you think you can say it at all. You can't. You just don't have the right. Not because you choose to say it to me or someone else, whoever. You just can't say it.

 

[surskitty]

so, call the people who are okay with it 'tranny', but not people who would be offended by it. social skills.

And of course people never claim that they're not bothered when they are in order to not be seen as oversensitive.

 

[Zuu]

well, i don't understand this viewpoint, so i'm sorry if i've offended you. i don't understand reclamation (queer and Jew are still used offensively where i live) and anything else. being genderless or genderqueer or however someone would want to put it, i thought i'd be able to grasp it, but i can't. sorry.

 

[Eloi]

well, i don't understand this viewpoint, so i'm sorry if i've offended you. i don't understand reclamation (queer and Jew are still used offensively where i live) and anything else. being genderless or genderqueer or however someone would want to put it, i thought i'd be able to grasp it, but i can't. sorry.

Its just the concept that some people are more powerful than others, and thus have different lexicons for (self)-identification, with varying usage based on power.

 

[Saith]

I'm finding this thread kind of funny. Someone explains that he hates racism, and you all jump down his throat, telling him that he's racist.

But okay, on 'n-word privileges'. They're dumb. As in, they don't make sense. Either everybody can say it or no one can say it. And before you ask, this isn't out of some 'if I can't say it, no one can!' moustache twiddling bull.
It's because anybody who'll get offended with the word 'nigger' regardless of context, finds the offence in the word itself.

Someone who finds the context offensive would only get offended during certain uses. For example, if my mates call me a tranny I don't give two shits, but if someone I don't know calls me a tranny (and very definitely hates me for it), we'll head to his house and key his car. Simples.
Through this interpretation, the word isn't to blame, but rather it's the racist.

If you find the word itself offensive by definition, then any usage of said word, regardless of who says it, will be offensive. Richard Prior had a section in one of his acts about how the word itself is bad, and how black people shouldn't say it because it's a 'symbol of African-American wretchedness'.
Under that interpretation, the word itself is bad, and should be banned from everyone.


tl;dr Fucking chill.

 

[Firelord Alex]

Jew just doesn't have the same connotation as nigger. Jew is just 3 letters away from Jewish. It's a shortened way of saying Jewish. Nigger was a word created with the sole reason of hate, and it isn't short for anything. Jew was altered by hate, Nigger was made by hate. A word of hate should never be used, a word changed by hate should be changed back.

 

[Lord of the Fireflies]

Did it never occur to you while responding (1) in a thread called "Racism and Other Prejudices" and (2) on a forum that's pretty much 100% QUILTBAG that hmm, maybe it's not such a good idea to use a slur that's been demeaning gay people for decades? Did it ever occur to you that maybe that same slur has been used to marginalize and demean myself and other members of this forum? Did it ever occur to you that hundreds, if not thousands, of kids kill themselves every year because of bullies who use that word? Did you think we'd all be okay with it?

OH SHIT I'M VERY SORRY. Honestly. I'm not anglophone, so I thought faggot was a generic term for douchebag, asshole, etc. Cheers for language barrier

I never meant using it to refer as homosexual, honestly.

No sarcasm here, I'm want to apologize to anybody who read this and felt offended (I understand you).

I'm sorry if I offended anybody, I didn't want to.

stop quoting me saying that

This line alone has to be the most offensive thing said on TCoD, and is definitely the most offensive thing I've read in my year here, regardless of your intended meaning.

i'm sorry

 

[Firelord Alex]

Faggot should mean douchebag and have nothing in common with a gay person unless that gay person is a douchebag.

 

[shy ♡]

I'm finding this thread kind of funny. Someone explains that he hates racism, and you all jump down his throat, telling him that he's racist.

But okay, on 'n-word privileges'. They're dumb. As in, they don't make sense. Either everybody can say it or no one can say it. And before you ask, this isn't out of some 'if I can't say it, no one can!' moustache twiddling bull.
It's because anybody who'll get offended with the word 'nigger' regardless of context, finds the offence in the word itself.

Someone who finds the context offensive would only get offended during certain uses. For example, if my mates call me a tranny I don't give two shits, but if someone I don't know calls me a tranny (and very definitely hates me for it), we'll head to his house and key his car. Simples.
Through this interpretation, the word isn't to blame, but rather it's the racist.

If you find the word itself offensive by definition, then any usage of said word, regardless of who says it, will be offensive. Richard Prior had a section in one of his acts about how the word itself is bad, and how black people shouldn't say it because it's a 'symbol of African-American wretchedness'.
Under that interpretation, the word itself is bad, and should be banned from everyone.


tl;dr Fucking chill.

One: Don't tell me to chill. I have emotions and they are legitimate and I don't care if you think otherwise. Chill if you want to, don't tell me what to do with my feelings.

Two: No. The reason the n word is not to be said by non-black people is not because it's a 'bad word'. It's because the word was not used to oppress non-black people. Thus, it can only be said by the people who it was used to oppress. It is a matter of privileges. If you used the word to oppress people, and use it now, you are still oppressing people by using it. It's not a 'omg bad word bad word don't say bad word' thing.

Faggot should mean douchebag and have nothing in common with a gay person unless that gay person is a douchebag.

Oh my god, just stop.

 

[Firelord Alex]

Oh my god, just stop.

Why? D: It's a good suggestion to the English corporation of the world.

 

[Aletheia]

Incidentally, faggot is the British spelling of fagot; a bundle of something, typically sticks.

Faggot as a pejorative term referring to a homosexual is a word of American origin first used in the early 20th century whose exact etymology is unknown.

 

[shy ♡]

Why? D: It's a good suggestion to the English corporation of the world.

No, it is not a good suggestion. At all. And this is why you should stop.

Incidentally, faggot is the British spelling of fagot; a bundle of something, typically sticks.

Faggot as a pejorative term referring to a homosexual is a word of American origin first used in the early 20th century whose exact etymology is unknown.

I see why this is relevant. ... Wait, no I don't.