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Of course I'm not forcing you to do anything if you don't want to, but seriously, what have you got to lose? Five seconds of your life?
Well I think it should be compulsory in the American southwest, then.So what about all the people who do not live in the american southwest, and might want to learn a different language?
If the United States were smaller, I should suggest the teaching of Spanish in all states. But the federal system of the United States lends itself to something more subtle. I am going to be this specific: make Spanish compulsory in states where it is widely spoken. I suppose widely can be defined as a percentage.And if you live in northern california? How specific are you going to be? Any state that is partially in the 'southwest'? Any state that has a large hispanic population? What happens when you have students who plan on leaving the region the moment they graduate for another place; do you want to force them to learn a language that loses its major use once they're done learning it?
There is already a huge number of people who prefer Spanish to other languages, due to the pronunciation ease. There is no reason to punish the small minority who have personal reasons as to take a different language by forcing them to learn either two, or the one they do not wish to know.
What percentage would be considered 'reasonable'?If the United States were smaller, I should suggest the teaching of Spanish in all states. But the federal system of the United States lends itself to something more subtle. I am going to be this specific: make Spanish compulsory in states where it is widely spoken. I suppose widely can be defined as a percentage.
Except English classes have absolutely nothing to do with learning the language. Sorry.Some of your argument can be applied to English. If the last two years of English classes weren't compulsory, most people would still go to them. There's no reason to punish a small minority who will leave the country after they graduate.
Making Spanish compulsory makes about as much sense as making classes related to basic labor force jobs compulsory, because that's what most people do when they leave school. Chemistry, to use your example, is only mandatory because it's part of the required 'knowledge base' before you go out into school; simply an advancement of the science classes you had when you were in Elementary school. A foreign language falls under the same category. However, by specializing it to only Spanish, this is about as useful as having everyone taking chemistry for four years.In fact I don't know why learning Spanish is a punishment. Everyone has to study things at school which he does not want to study. It seems to me that Spanish is at any rate more useful than Chemistry and other subjects.
So, I'd like to revise my position. I think that any foreign language should be required; most people here agree with this. However, in the case that a school can only have one foreign language class, Spanish should take precedence over all other classes. In addition, I'm sort of teetering on making Spanish classes mandatory for at least one year or maybe throughout Elementary school, but I'm not sure.
-Americans can actually practice Spanish. Classes are worth shit if you don't have people to speak to; I learned this from my French classes in 8th grade and decided to actually put more effort into my work and do some work outside of the curriculum to better understand the language. Now, I'm pretty sure Spanish is one of the most commonly spoken languages in the US, second to English. American students will actually have a chance to test their Spanish skills and find an opportunity to use them. If this is possible, then they'll be encouraged to better learn the language and already have a strong base if they decide to drop Spanish for something else.
-Spanish is closer to many languages of Europe than English. English has many rare phonemes, while Spanish has a pretty typical set of phonemes that will make it easier to pronounce another language. The sounds of English are practically of no help to me when I'm speaking French or Russian, but using Spanish as a base I can have a better native language. Spanish is also closer grammatically to the other languages of Europe, especially the Romance languages. Knowing Spanish, having taken maybe even a year of it, is much more helpful in learning other Romance languages than using just English. If you choose to branch off of the Romance languages and advance into something else, you'll still have a better foundation than having taken English alone.
-If you decide that you don't like Spanish and don't study another language after taking it, you will be stuck with a useful language (or at least know enough key phrases to get what you want out of people). If you were studying Swahili and lost interest in it, there would be little chance of using your language. THis leads to my next point:
-Spanish is painfully easy. Most people find Spanish to be an incredibly easy language. It has logical orthography, no crazy sounds to distinguish or make (except for maybe the flapped and trilled 'r'), and grammar comfortably close to English's (and this grammar is also much closer to other European languages than English, as already mentioned). A good part of the vocabulary is cognates with English. It is definitely a great beginner's language, and the learning curve isn't too steep, either. If you decide to drop Spanish before getting into more advanced stuff (and yes, naysayers, Spanish becomes difficult), you will know enough Spanish to have normal (not too deep) conversations with people and perhaps understand a spanish-only manual. If you drop Arabic after only a year, you will not know enough to converse with people, you certainly won't know enough to read, and you will be stuck with poor skills in a language that you won't have a chance to use (both because of your poor skills and the relative scarcity of Arabic speakers outside of the Arab world).
In short, Spanish is really an investment language; you study it to get the vocabulary, the grammar familiar to other European languages, and a good starting platform. If Spanish is not mandatory for any period of time, then it should be strongly reccomended. Spanish is the most logical starting point for an American student; it's easy, it's closer to other European languages (and even non-Indo-European languages), and it's useful. Although knowledge of Mandarin or Arabic may be more advantageous, these are languages with cultures rather unlike our own, very unfamiliar grammar, and not too many speakers outside of their respective countries. In addition, it takes much more time to reach, say, the intermediate level for these languages than for Spanish. Studying Spanish (or really, any other non-English language) puts those who know it (even if it's a little bit) at an advantage over those who don't know it, both for speaking to people (especially within the US, what with 12% of its speakers knowing Spanish) and learning other languages.
Now, I have to say that as someone who loves languages and as a native Spanish speaker that knowing Spanish is really much more helpful for me when studying languages than English, which I consider my second native language (and which I know to a much better degree than Spanish). English lacks many concepts that are common to many languages throughout the world, including Spanish, such as reflexive verbs, null-subject placement (in English, you cannot say 'ran to the store' without prior clarification because the person who ran to the store could be anyone. In Spanish, and additionally German, Russian, and Arabic, the verb conjugation reveals whether I, you, he, she, we, y'all or they ran to the store), and plenty of other things which I cannot recall.
This isn't to say that a year or two of Spanish is a magic pill that lets students acquire languages through osmosis; Spanish is a language which, like any other, requires work and devotion. However, Spanish requires significantly less work than, say, Arabic, to get to the same level of fluent speaking. Also, Spanish is also missing other features available amongst some languages, such as declension (argh russian whyyyyy), ergativity (argh hindi whyyyyy) and other stuff. Despite this, I would say that it is most advantageous for American students to start with Spanish, even if they look forward to other languages. Therefore, if Spanish is not required for any period of time, it should be strongly reccomended.
My elementary school had mandatory Spanish for five years, and most of the kids knew that language.
Also, I would argue that Spanish has been far more useful to me in my everyday life and maybe will even be in my future job than all the science (and maybe even math) I've learned so far.
You would have amateurs. A good amount of people in my school take French, and their accents are laughable, their grammar is terrible, and their interest is null. You need native speakers to speak to. If we were in... say, Quebec, then you would have more French speakers to speak to and you wouldn't say stuff like "I hamburgers have eat", as some of the kids in my school say (in French, of course).
Thanks for the fucking stereotype.
Spanish is quite useful in business as well. You'll come across as a better chap if you speak to the head of the Argentinian company you're trying to recruit in Spanish rather than assume they speaker English. If you're going into any type of retail work, then Spanish is also very useful (the aforementioned 12% Hispanophone population). In Quebec, 20% of people speak French at home, but still most retail workers will also speak French as well as English because it's an advantage.
What about absorbing the culture? ;-;
I agree with you here.
If you learn Spanish, then learning Russian will be much easier, and French is practically a cakewalk. I say this as someone who, suprise! knows Spanish and studies those two languages. Now, the advantage is that with Spanish, you get that knowledge much quicker than with Russian or French. You could start with Russian and still get an advantage in learning future languages, but Russian is more distant from English and harder to comprehend (even knowing three languages, I have trouble with Russian sometimes). If you want to take Mandarin, Spanish will be of minimal use to you, yes. If you start by learning Mandarin, however, you will also have minimal use for THAT unless you then learn other Chinese languages like Cantonese or maybe branch out into Japanese or maaaaybe Korean.
However, many Chinese (especially those in business) are learning English. Having been around the Spanish community, I can't say that it's the same.
I love Hindi, but it's far from useful. Most educated Indians (and most of the Indians you will be interacting with will likely be educated unless you want to work in rural India) know English, and rather well. In addition, even if you want to work in rural India, you will be better off studying whatever the local language is since it's more likely you'll find people speaking, say, Gujarati than Hindi.
You'll remember more Spanish than you will Chinese or Hindi. Also, this easy course should be mandatory or reccomended because it will make harder courses much, much easier. I seriously can't imagine studying even French with only English. I know a lot of people have done it, but the advantage of knowing Spanish is so great and the grammatical structure is so similar with French than I can't imagine life without it.
There aren't that many people speaking French or German, and they will more than likely be concentrated in certain areas. take a look at this chart of the most spoken languages in the US.
English - 215 million
Spanish - 28 million (13%)
Chinese languages - 2.0 million + (mostly Cantonese speakers, with a growing group of Mandarin speakers) (0.9%)
French - 1.6 million (0.7%)
German - 1.4 million (High German) + German dialects like Hutterite German, Texas German, Pennsylvania Dutch, Plautdietsch... (0.6%)
Tagalog - 1.2 million + (Most Filipinos may also know other Philippine languages, e.g. Ilokano, Pangasinan, Bikol languages, and Visayan languages) (0.6%)
Yeah, learning German or French would not be more useful. At least with Spanish, you have a helpful addition in retail.
No they can't. German does not have the multitude of speakers Spanish has, German is not as easy as Spanish, and German does not have many of the advantages of Spanish.
This is how I picture it:
English-------Spanish----German
Notice how it takes longer for an English speaker not knowing Spanish to reach a good level in German than one who knows Spanish. Although technically English is closer related to German, being part of the Germanic family, English has lost a truckload of things German has (declensions, verb-final placement, etc.). As such, my argument doesn't apply to German, or French, or Chinese, or Italian.
The habits from studying Spanish will help you in learning Chinese? You'll have a slight advantage in having a better accent? You'll already have had experience with another language and so won't feel demotivated if Chinese doesn't come easily?
Are you speaking to Cubans or something? Most of the Spanish leaners I've spoken to over the 'net say that Spanish speakers are clear speakers (especially Columbians and Spaniards). In turn, many of the Mandarin learners I've spoken to say that they have difficulty hearing the tones because Chinese... speak fast.
I wasn't arguing just that Spanish is useful; I was arguing that it's a good starting point for getting into other languages as well because Spanish is practically a "Foreign language for dummies". French and the Chinese languages are harder to start and have a steeper learning curve.
I don't know either. O.oWhy do people call them dialects? :? They're not mutually intelligeble.
Well, nobody here cuts trees on a regular basis, though trees in the suburbs are rather common, so it sounded like yet another "lolol hispanics do low labor" joke or something. Thanks for clearing it up.
That sort of went with another point I made where you more likely to find a Chinese speaker who knows english.
Well, Asia is a very diverse region. While almost all the languages of Europe are Indo-European (except for Estonian, Hungarian, Finnish, and maybe Basque and some other freaky languages), Asia is much bigger and Chinese isn't the gateway to, say, Thai, or Hindi. If you want to work in East Asia, though, then you'd be right.
French is slightly harder for English speakers than Spanish and Spanish has numerous other advantages French doesn't have, at least for someone's first foreign language.
Ah, but does German have all the other lovely advantages of Spanish?
There are trends, though. Some people absorb languages better than other, but in general most people have difficulty studying Chinese right off the bat.
The further along in your language-studying you get, the clearer the words become unless it's French. When I first heard people speaking Russian, I was like "wtf kind of language is this", but now I can hear them much clearer.
but once again, there are trends. On "Which language is easier to learn?" lists, Spanish is almost universally placed at the bottom as either easy or easiest, and Chinese is usually on top as hardest or hard.
Edit: Wow, that ended up sounding like weird language porn between Chinese and Spanish. o_o
Spanish sounds different in each country. Latin Americans all have different Spanish accents, so you can tell an Argentinian from a Mexican from a Cuban, etc. Spanish from Spain is pretty far removed and even has a pronoun practically nobody else uses. It's like English.
(without reading the topic, really)
I'm not fond of the Spanish language - that's why I'm taking French.
It'd be interesting if schools offered 'packages' depending on which part of the world students wanted to work.
I agreed with you that it shouldn't be mandatory in some regions. I'm not sure what to do with those regions, but I suppose someone who knows more than me on the language geography of the US could help.
Freaking serious. Every line sounds like "bonjurjmappljeanejaimbcouplezamburgeois".
Practice does have a lot to do with it. I really wish schools here offered a wider variety of languages; Russian classes are non-existant here. The most foreign languages we can learn are Mandarin, Japanese, and Arabic. Know those and you can conquer the world~
They do... but then again so does Spanish.
Unless they use CRAZY MAD slang, all Hispanophones can understand each other.
Maybe for certain regions it could be mandatory. As for other regions... it would require some specific studying of said regions. If there are no large quantities of non-English speakers there, then I suppose they could default to Spanish.
It's been said that the hardest language to learn is the one you dislike.
Spanish is, essentially, the second language of the US. And yes, I googled that. I think that it should be required from at least grade three up through the first year of high school, and then be optional after that. After that first year they should also provide other language courses, like German, French, Chinese, etc. And as for the people who are native English speakers and still can't say anything properly... enroll them in summer school and FORCE them to use proper grammar. PLEASE. It's as bad as using chatspeak.