Theism, Religion and Lack thereof

[Superbird]

^Yes, but apparently the "helping your country" part overrules that.

 

[Tarvos]

^Yes, but apparently the "helping your country" part overrules that.

Soldiers have no right to claim anything about morals. In the words of the late Bill Hicks: "Excuse me, but aren't you all fucking HIRED KILLERS? Shut up! When we need you to pull the fuck out of a nation full of little brown people, we'll let you know."

 

[Phantom]

I came across this recently.

 

[Tarvos]

Good video.

Funny anecdote about the Catholic church in the Netherlands: they're all empty nowadays.

It was kind of funny, when my grandmother died (grandparents were devout catholics) my grandfather made us all go to the catholic services that were dedicated to her. Since my family is huge as shit the first five rows were all filled by my family.

Way to get the church full with unbelievers, haha...

 

[Pwnemon]

That video: treats anything a biblical character did as condoned by god.

 

[Time Psyduck]

That video: treats anything a biblical character did as condoned by god.

You do realise that the majority of stuff in that video was done under god's orders right? And the stuff that wasn't, from what I remember god didn't punish anyone for it. So yeah, pretty much everything in that video was condoned by god.

 

[Tarvos]

That video: treats anything a biblical character did as condoned by god.

uh God ordered that shit pretty much

PS what happened to THE BIBLE BEING INSPIRED BY GOD

 

[Harlequin]

uh God ordered that shit pretty much

PS what happened to THE BIBLE BEING INSPIRED BY GOD

well it's totally only the word of God when it's like, not about horrific things that can't really be explained with "god said it was okay"

GOD HAS BLUE AND ORANGE MORALITY

 

[Pwnemon]

uh God ordered that shit pretty much

PS what happened to THE BIBLE BEING INSPIRED BY GOD

Well if the Bible being inspired by god means the Bible being condoned by God, or even that if followers of god are condoned by god, then worshipping gods other than god is OK since Aaron did that and he followed god and the bible records it and was inspired by god.

 

[Vladimir Putin's LJ]

'I will post a thing that is obviously not what the other poster meant (probably picking on semantics) and construct a hard to read sentence thereby discrediting his argument THAT'S THE WAY TO DO IT!!'

 

[Pwnemon]

Fine then, here we go in Simple English format:

Watershed said the bible was inspired by god. This meant to imply that what is in the bible is condoned by God. However, idolatry is in the bible. God condoning idolatry makes no sense. Therefore, that argument is not true.

 

[Aobaru]

Fine then, here we go in Simple English format:

Watershed said the bible was inspired by god. This meant to imply that what is in the bible is condoned by God. However, idolatry is in the bible. God condoning idolatry makes no sense. Therefore, that argument is not true.

Watershed was being sarcastic with that statement (and consequently didn't provide any support for it).

Pwnemon, I'm curious: how do you think God "inspired" the Bible? Did he actually talk to the writers? Dreams? Is there any logical argument you can make as to the supernatural "inspiration" of the Bible?

 

[Tarvos]

Fine then, here we go in Simple English format:

Watershed said the bible was inspired by god. This meant to imply that what is in the bible is condoned by God. However, idolatry is in the bible. God condoning idolatry makes no sense. Therefore, that argument is not true.

Sigh. Way to misunderstand my sentence.

Here's my real premise: those things that are mentioned in that video, are, in the Bible, ordered by God through one of his disciples. Some of those words are laid directly in his mouth. I am pretty sure that if it says what it says in the book, and it's God saying it, then I am pretty sure that God is condoning what it says there. Else it wouldn't be proclaimed as the word of God.

Moses does X. Moses says he does X because God told him to do X. That pretty much implies God want X done.

Let's take the example of Jephthah. Jephthah made a pact with God. In return for victory, the first thing he would sacrifice is the first thing that would greet him when he came home. Alas, it's his only daughter!

I am pretty sure that since God approved of this vow, he condones this action.

The idolatry thing is a completely different topic.

You can dig yourself into a hole, Pwnemon, but you can't dig yourself out of it unless you admit you're blatantly wrong.

 

[Aobaru]

It would be fair to say that if God didn't condone (i.e. it was against his law) an act of rape/incest/murder, even if it was committed by a member of his "chosen people", there would be an explicit punishment, yes? Well, for example:

Genesis 19:30-32, 36 (NIV)
Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father."

So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father.

This is in direct violation of Leviticus 18:6, No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD. There is no mention in the following verses of any punishment on the two daughters of Lot; in fact, they begin two prosperous bloodlines as a result of the incest (Genesis 19:37-38). So, wouldn't it be safe to say that God condoned the act of incest, in direct violation of his earlier law (of which the punishment was death: Leviticus 20:10)?

 

[Pwnemon]

Sigh. Way to misunderstand my sentence.

Here's my real premise: those things that are mentioned in that video, are, in the Bible, ordered by God through one of his disciples. Some of those words are laid directly in his mouth. I am pretty sure that if it says what it says in the book, and it's God saying it, then I am pretty sure that God is condoning what it says there. Else it wouldn't be proclaimed as the word of God.

Moses does X. Moses says he does X because God told him to do X. That pretty much implies God want X done.

Let's take the example of Jephthah. Jephthah made a pact with God. In return for victory, the first thing he would sacrifice is the first thing that would greet him when he came home. Alas, it's his only daughter!

I am pretty sure that since God approved of this vow, he condones this action.

The idolatry thing is a completely different topic.

You can dig yourself into a hole, Pwnemon, but you can't dig yourself out of it unless you admit you're blatantly wrong.

Hey, let's take a look at this in text, shall we?

29 Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah. He crossed Gilead and Manasseh, passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from there he advanced against the Ammonites. 30 And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD : "If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

32 Then Jephthah went over to fight the Ammonites, and the LORD gave them into his hands. 33 He devastated twenty towns from Aroer to the vicinity of Minnith, as far as Abel Keramim. Thus Israel subdued Ammon.

34 When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, "Oh! My daughter! You have made me miserable and wretched, because I have made a vow to the LORD that I cannot break."

So here we see the whole passage, from vow to seeing his daughter, and God never said a word. Furthermore, unless the Bible says, "Do this," it doesn't mean "do this." There are historical accounts in there too and you can't just pick and choose what parts of history you're going to tell people about; then you'd be a politician.

Also, I challenge you to find a "Moses does X because God said so" that is something like rape or human sacrifice please.

EDIT: I got ninja'd by Aobaru. Firstly, Leviticus is not his earlier law. Secondly, isn't the argument against people using leviticus against homosexuality that it was only a code for the priests? Pick a side, any side. Thirdly, Moabites and Ammonites both lost a huge bloody war as allies against israel.

 

[Aobaru]

Leviticus is not his earlier law

What would Leviticus be, then? Poetry?

Secondly, isn't the argument against people using leviticus against homosexuality that it was only a code for the priests? Pick a side, any side.

I personally don't subscribe to that argument (as I don't know very much about it)... my argument is, if you eat shrimp (Lev. 11:10), we're in the same boat, buddy.

Thirdly, Moabites and Ammonites both lost a huge bloody war as allies against israel.

(1) Please back up your claims, and (2) please tell me what this has to do with a direct punishment from God regarding Lot's daughter's incest. I read nothing about a stoning/ostracizing in the following verses.

 

[Pwnemon]

What would Leviticus be, then? Poetry?

No, try written hundreds of years after the incident.

I personally don't subscribe to that argument (as I don't know very much about it)... my argument is, if you eat shrimp (Lev. 11:10), we're in the same boat, buddy.

The way I see it Leviticus is mostly a book of laws for hygiene and survival. Stay out of a mildewed house, don't sleep with people of other races (for fear of STD's,) don't eat shrimp (foodborne illness) etc.

(1) Please back up your claims, and (2) please tell me what this has to do with a direct punishment from God regarding Lot's daughter's incest. I read nothing about a stoning/ostracizing in the following verses.

There was no stoning/ostracizing in the following verses because nobody except the sisters knew what had happened. So, as punishment those two nations get crushed, again and again.

 

[Tarvos]

Sigh. Implicit condoning is still condoning.

 

[Teh Ebil Snorlax]

There was no stoning/ostracizing in the following verses because nobody except the sisters knew what had happened. So, as punishment those two nations get crushed, again and again.

So, the omniscient God of the Bible didn't know?

 

[Pwnemon]

So, the omniscient God of the Bible didn't know?

The omniscient god of the bible knew very well, hence why Moabites and Ammonites were defeated multiple times in the bible.