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Child Discipline

Phantom

Phantom

Uh, I didn't do it.
Is spanking children right or wrong?

Obviously no one is going to come on here and say "I <3 child abuse!" so please none of that. Child abuse is obviously a huge issue, and obviously is wrong. And remember, there maybe/are members here who may be dealing with this sort of thing, so please be considerate of others.


Links used in discussion:

10 Reasons Not to Hit Your Child - given by Phantom
When is Spanking Child Abuse? (The New York Times) - given by Phantom
Child Discipline - Is Spanking a Child Ever Okay? (About.com) - given by Phantom
Is spanking children OK? Calvin College professor's research shows adults who remember being spanked are more well-adjusted (The Grand Rapids Press) - given by Phantom
Smacking children 'does not work' (BBC News UK) - given by Phantom
Child Discipline (Wikipedia) - given by Phantom
http://www.womanist-musings.com/2011...-spanking.html - given by Viki
Discipline at school - facts vs opinions -given by Pathos
Statistics by area -given by Pathos
Is Corporal Punishment an Effective Means of Discipline? -given by Pathos
Corporal Punishment May Have Long-Term Negative Effects On Children's Intelligence -given by Pathos
Corporal Punishment in Schools and Its Effect on Academic Success -given by Pathos
The State of Research on the Effects of Physical Punishment -given by Pathos
Effects of parental corporal punishment (wiki) -given by Pathos
Justification and criticism (wiki) -given by Pathos


What are your takes on child discipline? Is 'spanking' ok for a child? When does it become abuse? Should it be illegal to smack or hit a child? Should parents be able to raise their kids how they feel they should?

Any other good links I'll add, I just googled and stuck them in there.
 
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I heard of this one lady who spanked her adopted Russian son just for him to be normal. I don't see any logic in that...

I think spanking a child is wrong, because it harms them, of course, and it makes them SCARED to mess up (They think if they mess up, they'll get spanked again), when people need to fail to know not to make the mistake again
 
SquishierCobra said:
What Sweetie Belle. It's wrong to spank your kids.
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Well, I mean every time they do something slightly wrong. If they do something really terrible then yeah, spank them to remind them to not do it again. But spanking them for something extremely minor and small isn't really right.
 
I honestly had to stop reading the articles, I'm starting to cry.

It's weird, because I love my mom a lot and I know she does too, but my fear of pain combined with the memories of being spanked as a kid (a slapped and having my hair pulled on once more recently in my preteens) does not make me a happy panda. I also think the fact that an hour later she would always become guilty and some to apologize and hug me made it a bit confusing for my young mind too.

The weird thing is, objectively, I was a pain in the ass when I was younger. Even I couldn't put up with me. But it's all internalized to the point that I always cringe and start crying when she's mad. (That's also some of my self-esteem issues from bulling reminding me I failed again, though.)

Let me reiterate that I'm not abused here; I haven't been hit in years and even as a preteen it was extremely rare. It's just something that's stuck with me even over all the love I get.
 
Vladimir Putin's LJ said:
What qualifies as something 'really terrible?'
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Setting the kitchen sink on fire? (I couldn't think of anything else...) If a kid were to accidentally hit their sibling and got spanked, then that would be minor and something that shouldn't have a spanking.
 
I believe in discipline, but I don't think violence is ever an appropriate response to children's misconduct, regardless of severity. There's no reason to believe that it makes them grow up to be better people or that it teaches them valuable lessons; if anything, it'll do the opposite.
 
I'm against it. My mom used to do that a lot and it always ended up worse than it started. Violence only causes harm and hatred, and may make the child not learn how to deal with difficult situations and even make them become more violent as they'll learn that violence is the right way to ending an argument.
 
I was spanked so much as a child, and it would never stop because I was unable to control myself. I learned absolutely nothing from the belt.

So yeah, I'm anti-physical punishment.
 
I got spanked occasionally when I was younger. I don't know, but it was always my dad who spanked me. I grew closer to him than to my mom. I got caught stealing once, and got a time-out. I got caught stealing again. Got spanked. Never did it again.

Amusingly, after my dad converted to Christianity, he started spanking me less.

So uh, I don't know. I'd say that it's acceptable, unless it's carried as far as to put the child's health in danger. Time-outs never worked on me because I loved being alone, and I was too smart for my own good so talking and trying to shame me didn't work.
 
I'm not big on the idea of spanking, but I see it as a "will work on some, not on others" type thing. I wouldn't recommend that all parents do it, but it probably has the intended effect on some children, but not all.
 
There are 2 issues here: discipline and child abuse.

Discipline is convincing children to act in the way we think is right. The alternative is letting your children grow up as bad people. Spanking is an extreme form of punishment, which should only be used if a child does something very bad, but the threat can be used to prevent children from ever needing to be punished. I was spanked exactly twice as a child, and I do not disagree with my parents descision to punish me like this.

Child abuse is anything which causes children harm. This includes any form of punishment which will give them nightmares, such as physical assualt or psychological torture. Spanking can fall into this category sometimes, but it does not have to. What matters is knowing what works to change and guide children along. I consider failing to teach, love and prepare children for the world to be far worse than giving them bruises; bruises heal. (in addition, spanking does not to cause bruises if done right.) In this day and age, so many ideas and standards are thrown at people every day that they will be hard pressed to keep themselves true. Everyone must learn their own way.

To be clear, I am not against spanking, but I am against excessive punishment. Children are so difficult to raise well, and the only way to do it right is to learn from the children themselves.

Everyone should follow these rules:
Do no harm
Strive to make your children better people than you ever were, in every way you can imagine.
Do what works, there is more than one right way to do things
Love your children more than anything or anyone else


I wish you the best of luck.
 
hopeandjoy said:
The weird thing is, objectively, I was a pain in the ass when I was younger. Even I couldn't put up with me. But it's all internalized to the point that I always cringe and start crying when she's mad. (That's also some of my self-esteem issues from bulling reminding me I failed again, though.)
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If it makes you feel any better, I'm almost 19 and I still cry if people I really care about raise their voices at me. I used to cry when my dad did, but I've gotten to the point where I don't really care anymore what he thinks.

I have a very, very poor relationship with my father, who spanked me quite a lot until a few years ago, when I just didn't respond to it anymore and he decided I was old enough to survive being thumped on the head. He'd also raise his voice all the time, and it was rarely not over something petty. I'd forget to do something, or there'd be a spider nesting on my bicycle and I'd be afraid to try to ride it, or sometimes I would feel gutsy and try to justify my actions to him, to which his response was invariably hitting me some way for daring to challenge his authority. Sometimes he would punish me for something he found out after the fact-- or at least, that was what I assume and hope, because at the time I had no idea what he was spanking me for and still can't figure out now. Last year I was thrown onto the floor and smacked wherever, since both of my arms were pinned under me. That one left visible injuries so he stopped doing that, but he still threatens it all the time. And the funny thing is, he's always whining about how I don't respect him. He can't get it through his head that the more he threatens me with physical violence, the more I dehumanize him. But then I would be told that he had it a lot worse as a kid. He'd get chased around with a belt, or have chinaware thrown at him, and all of these other horrible things, as if that justified how he would discipline me and that I should have been thankful that I didn't have it as bad as he did.

And that's just fucked up. There were kids (like my dad) that had a lot worse, I know, and that kept me from ever talking about it. But all of my friends had it much better. On my bad days I still wonder why my dad is so much worse than everyone else's and if there is something wrong with me.

I hear the argument that some kids need that because they don't respond to reason, and I can sort of see where that's coming form (my boyfriend has wonderful parents, and he turned out just fine too, so I suppose it's not necessarily always terrible), but I wasn't one of those kids, and when you treat sensitive and otherwise responsive children like stubborn, hard-headed children it can have extremely negative effects. So... yeah, I've got a really poor opinion of spanking, or even just yelling, and I don't plan on ever doing it. I tend to think poorly of parents that do those things. It's more important that a child understands why what they did was wrong, and not just that it was wrong. That way they learn to reason, and understand that you're trying to protect them and aren't just asserting your authority because you can- which is the impression I always got, unfortunately.

But I'm still afraid. If my dad resented being treated the way he was by his parents, why did he do it to me? What is it that drives him to be like his parents? Did he once want to be different too? Will that happen to me later, even though I don't want to be like him now? I don't really understand what goes on in his head... other than that he thinks he has the right to do whatever he wants to me, just because he's my dad, but knowing that much just makes things even scarier.

long venty post is long, but this topic doesn't really come up a lot and I felt like justifying my views on the subject with personal experience. and also venting a little
 
bulbasaur said:
I got spanked occasionally when I was younger. I don't know, but it was always my dad who spanked me. I grew closer to him than to my mom. I got caught stealing once, and got a time-out. I got caught stealing again. Got spanked. Never did it again.
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pretty much same here

my dad used to spank/slipper us if we did something particularly bad, but that was very very rarely and it stopped completely once we got to like, 11 years old or so.
my mum however is very against spanking but her yelling was always a looottttt worse than the spanking.

it probably depends on the individual parent (and the child too) with how well spanking works as a punishment.
 
Alraune said:
On my bad days I still wonder why my dad is so much worse than everyone else's and if there is something wrong with me.
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Alraune said:
Will that happen to me later, even though I don't want to be like him now?
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Man, I know how that feels :( The latter is one of the reasons I'll never, ever associate myself with kids, because what if I end up screwing it up and then the kid turns out like I did aaa.

On-topic, I don't have any experience with spanking per se, but my dad did think that whipping me with his belt, punching me in the face or confiscating the medicine I take for my breathing were good forms of discipline, and I know I sure as hell wouldn't lay a hand on a kid to try and get it to do what I wanted.

On the other hand, I do know it's supposedly sometimes effective, if not done hard or the like? So I don't know, I doubt it should be illegal outright or anything like that, but I do think it should be treated with extreme caution.

Okay I probably just added nothing relevant at all to this discussion sorry :(
 
Isn't the reason spanking by itself for itself is bad because it teaches the children to not to do bad things (or not get caught doing bad things), not why they shouldn't do bad things?

I think spanking is okay if it's used to supplement discipline, not as a form of punishment. The children should always be taught the reason their action isn't allowed: a parent showing disappointment in a child's actions is a much better than just spanking when a child did something wrong, since it teaches the child that eir actions affect other people, which children often don't realize. Spanking should probably be reserved for the most severe of situations (whatever the parent deems to be severe enough), and the parent should always make sure the child knows why they're being spanked. The pain will help make the lesson more memorable anyhow.

I dunno, I was spanked when I was a kid, but I don't think I'm that maladjusted...
 
Crazy Linoone said:
I dunno, I was spanked when I was a kid, but I don't think I'm that maladjusted...
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yeah, me too. But I don't think I could ever really use violence to discipline a child because it's really exercising the extreme power you have over a child as an adult. They sort of rely on their parents to like, live. Personally I think that parenthood is about giving them what they need to grow into a person, but parents more or less have a tight rein on a child's personhood until they sorta get to adolescence. You can hit a child and there is very little they can to stop you; that feels like a misuse of that trust/responsibility.

But then I don't ever really want kids, so.
 
http://www.womanist-musings.com/search/label/spanking ← filled with good points

i wasn't spanked very often but i do know that the vast majority of the time when i was, i couldn't tell what i'd done wrong. it'd usually be after i got distracted and started goofing off on the internet after taking a bath or shower because mum wanted to go do something and never actually told me she wanted me to be downstairs, or if she did, she didn't tell me so that i understood that

and then i'd panic whenever mum was calling me downstairs on days that weren't school days.

i don't see how that's remotely productive.
 
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