Do you identify as a feminist?

[Aisling]

What more important stuff? I think the treatment of women as objects is one of the most serious problems in modern society.

Equality in the workplace, equal opportunity... Stuff that immediately affects life (in this case, how much money they can make which would affect their standard of living). I'm vaguely aware that these are issues, so to me it seems like a more important target than porn. I suppose one could argue that's the reason women don't already consistently have this, but I dunno.

 

[Harlequin]

i am womyn hear me roar

men are evil, fight the male power

womyn's rights!!

... anyway.

RE: the objectification of women in porn: what about gay porn for gay males?

 

[shy ♡]

I'm gonna reiterate a point I made earlier: it's very easy to not identify as a feminist, to not realize what feminism is, and that sexism still exists and is a huge part of our society when you are a cisgendered, hetero white male, or even just a few of those.

For example: if you don't fit into gender binaries, you start to realize just how sexist the world is. This isn't something that can be so easily explained if you do fit the gender binaries because you have never stopped to examine them. But if you have, if you don't fit them, you wonder why there are gender binaries to begin with. Why you're called 'fag' all the time if you don't fit them. Why girls can't wear tuxedos to prom, why barbie looks like she does, why girls = pink and boys = blue from birth. From before birth. From the moment a baby is identified as one gender or another, attitudes change; that is sexist.

But if you never examine that, of course there is no reason to think that sexism still exists. I'm not expecting everyone to realize or see the world this way. But I hope you can understand that you are privileged in that you don't have to.

And I will never drop the label of feminist. Get over your fear of the word. Many words used to be and still are 'dirty words' in the US and have no reason to be.

Also re: educate people, there was a PDD response to that but apparently the tumblr got suspended for copyright issues or some other shit. But basically, it's not our responsibility to educate you. Educate yourself.

 

[Zuu]

I'm gonna reiterate a point I made earlier: it's very easy to not identify as a feminist, to not realize what feminism is, and that sexism still exists and is a huge part of our society when you are a cisgendered, hetero white male, or even just a few of those.

For example: if you don't fit into gender binaries, you start to realize just how sexist the world is. This isn't something that can be so easily explained if you do fit the gender binaries because you have never stopped to examine them. But if you have, if you don't fit them, you wonder why there are gender binaries to begin with. Why you're called 'fag' all the time if you don't fit them. Why girls can't wear tuxedos to prom, why barbie looks like she does, why girls = pink and boys = blue from birth. From before birth. From the moment a baby is identified as one gender or another, attitudes change; that is sexist.

But if you never examine that, of course there is no reason to think that sexism still exists. I'm not expecting everyone to realize or see the world this way. But I hope you can understand that you are privileged in that you don't have to.

And I will never drop the label of feminist. Get over your fear of the word. Many words used to be and still are 'dirty words' in the US and have no reason to be.

Also re: educate people, there was a PDD response to that but apparently the tumblr got suspended for copyright issues or some other shit. But basically, it's not our responsibility to educate you. Educate yourself.

lol i don't understand, are you telling me i don't realise sexism exists? i realise what advantages i have over non-white, non-male people (though i'm not exactly cisgendered). i'm also aware that society expects some things out of me as a male that i can't/don't want to live up to. i know sexism exists.

and okay, do what you want

and okay, have fun with no one listening to you because they have no idea what you're about.

 

[Adriane]

Yes, I do.

 

[octobr]

I'm gonna reiterate a point I made earlier: it's very easy to not identify as a feminist, to not realize what feminism is, and that sexism still exists and is a huge part of our society when you are a cisgendered, hetero white male, or even just a few of those.

For example: if you don't fit into gender binaries, you start to realize just how sexist the world is. This isn't something that can be so easily explained if you do fit the gender binaries because you have never stopped to examine them. But if you have, if you don't fit them, you wonder why there are gender binaries to begin with. Why you're called 'fag' all the time if you don't fit them. Why girls can't wear tuxedos to prom, why barbie looks like she does, why girls = pink and boys = blue from birth. From before birth. From the moment a baby is identified as one gender or another, attitudes change; that is sexist.

I think this might also have to do with why I don't identify as feminist. The word itself has a sort of a pro-woman, anti-man connotation (at least to me) and though I'm not anti-woman by any stretch of the imagination, I'm certainly not anti-man, either. None of the things above are particularly feminist as opposed to, say, a cry for equal rights -- which is really at the core of feminism, of course, but I don't understand the need for such a gendered term.

I guess I would say I'm anti-sexism. Not feminist, not masculinist (is that even a thing), just anti-sexism.

Sexism't.

 

[shy ♡]

lol i don't understand, are you telling me i don't realise sexism exists? i realise what advantages i have over non-white, non-male people (though i'm not exactly cisgendered). i'm also aware that society expects some things out of me as a male that i can't/don't want to live up to. i know sexism exists.

and okay, do what you want

and okay, have fun with no one listening to you because they have no idea what you're about.

Then I'm confused by your position. Is feminism somehow not a movement about gender equality? And if it is a movement about that, why would you choose not to identify as part of it, if you are for gender equality?

I think this might also have to do with why I don't identify as feminist. The word itself has a sort of a pro-woman, anti-man connotation (at least to me) and though I'm not anti-woman by any stretch of the imagination, I'm certainly not anti-man, either. None of the things above are particularly feminist as opposed to, say, a cry for equal rights -- which is really at the core of feminism, of course, but I don't understand the need for such a gendered term.

I guess I would say I'm anti-sexism. Not feminist, not masculinist (is that even a thing), just anti-sexism.

Sexism't.

I can understand the desire for a different uh, term, than feminist, but I choose to stick to feminist because of all the great things the movement has done. (And at its core it is about gender equality, not women equality.) The fact that the word is feminine tends to piss people off which, imo, is a sexist reaction.

 

[Harlequin]

Guys, guys, this is all a load of bunk. The womyn's rights movement is where it's at.

;D

(interestingly, womyn are batshit fucking insane and the stuff I've read...)

 

[Music Dragon]

Just as one can be gay without participating in a pride parade, so too can one be feminist without burning any bras.

(Voted yes.)

 

[Dannichu]

lol i don't understand, are you telling me i don't realise sexism exists? i realise what advantages i have over non-white, non-male people (though i'm not exactly cisgendered). i'm also aware that society expects some things out of me as a male that i can't/don't want to live up to. i know sexism exists.

and okay, do what you want

and okay, have fun with no one listening to you because they have no idea what you're about.

She's making perfect sense. She's outlining why feminism should be seen as an important issue - lots of people are feminists without identifying as one (feminism = sexual equality, and anyone who doesn't agree with sexual equality is, I would say, either ignorant or bigoted). But lots of people don't idenify as such because they don't care enough or see it as a big enough deal, often because they've never examined systems of privelige.

I absolutely hate that feminism is seen as anti-men. It's not, it's really, really not. True sexual equality implimented within society would mean a complete removal of gendered expectations that are placed on people from birth - boys wouldn't be expected to go into a "man's job". If a heterosexual couple had a child, they would both recieve a parental leave, not just the mother getting a maternity leave. If a het couple with a child divorced, custody wouldn't 'automatically' go to the mother, because the "mothers are better for children" myth wouldn't exist.

 

[hopeandjoy]

Not to mention the fact that the protest against the Miss America pageant in 1968, which is most associated with bra-burning, was more like throw-bras-in-a-garbage-can-ing.

(Yep, feminist as hell. Raised by one, have a sister that's one, and is one.)

 

[ultraviolet]

The fact that the word is feminine tends to piss people off which, imo, is a sexist reaction.

Actually, no. It pisses me off because it's really misleading.

If someone doesn't know much about feminism but they see the 'feminist' movement, of course they're likely to assume that it's solely about women, when it's in fact not. I hate 'feminist' as a word because it makes little sense; it might have made sense when the movement focused on the equal treatment of women, but it's not anymore. The word 'feminist' implies that it's about women. Of course it does. Yes, you know that the feminist movement is about gender equality, and I don't think anyone here's against gender equality. But I don't want to be known as a feminist because the name implies it's only about women. I know it's not. But I also don't want people to think I hate men or something. I would rather identify as a gender-equality-ist or something. I mean really, isn't it a least a little bit of a double-standard to be for gender equality but to be called a feminist? It's not about women; it's about everyone.

This isn't sexist; the term is misleading.

But basically, it's not our responsibility to educate you. Educate yourself.

I really don't understand this. People aren't going to suddenly wake up and start thinking hard about how they're treated in relation to their gender. Change happens through education, and I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here.

 

[Pwnemon]

If a heterosexual couple had a child, they would both recieve a parental leave, not just the mother getting a maternity leave.

This is one of the major reasons that I don't identify with the feminist movement. They seem to believe that men and women are interchangeable. They should have equal rights, but there are differences between the two - namely, in this case, that the man wasn't pregnant and just didn't undergo huge convulsions and have a nine-pound baby emerge from his rectum. It takes time to recover from childbirth. It does not take near as much time to recover from your wife giving birth to a child.

 

[shy ♡]

She's making perfect sense. She's outlining why feminism should be seen as an important issue - lots of people are feminists without identifying as one (feminism = sexual equality, and anyone who doesn't agree with sexual equality is, I would say, either ignorant or bigoted). But lots of people don't idenify as such because they don't care enough or see it as a big enough deal, often because they've never examined systems of privelige.

I absolutely hate that feminism is seen as anti-men. It's not, it's really, really not. True sexual equality implimented within society would mean a complete removal of gendered expectations that are placed on people from birth - boys wouldn't be expected to go into a "man's job". If a heterosexual couple had a child, they would both recieve a parental leave, not just the mother getting a maternity leave. If a het couple with a child divorced, custody wouldn't 'automatically' go to the mother, because the "mothers are better for children" myth wouldn't exist.

:[ I'm a boy.

Actually, no. It pisses me off because it's really misleading.

If someone doesn't know much about feminism but they see the 'feminist' movement, of course they're likely to assume that it's solely about women, when it's in fact not. I hate 'feminist' as a word because it makes little sense; it might have made sense when the movement focused on the equal treatment of women, but it's not anymore. The word 'feminist' implies that it's about women. Of course it does. Yes, you know that the feminist movement is about gender equality, and I don't think anyone here's against gender equality. But I don't want to be known as a feminist because the name implies it's only about women. I know it's not. But I also don't want people to think I hate men or something. I would rather identify as a gender-equality-ist or something. I mean really, isn't it a least a little bit of a double-standard to be for gender equality but to be called a feminist? It's not about women; it's about everyone.

This isn't sexist; the term is misleading.



I really don't understand this. People aren't going to suddenly wake up and start thinking hard about how they're treated in relation to their gender. Change happens through education, and I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here.

Many things are misleading. That's why you learn about them and, when you learn you're wrong, you stop clinging to your misinformation. Most of the people who posted here acknowledged that feminism is not women>men. It's gender equality. But they still don't identify as feminists. So I really don't think the problem is thinking that feminism is women>men.

Sure, change happens through education, but I'm not a teacher and I'm not in charge of that education. If the person is at all interested in not sounding completely uninformed on an issue, they can do their own research rather than relying on random people to feed them the information. If they're not interested, they will continue to be uninformed. Doesn't seem to have bothered them until now, so. Just stop expecting me to educate you.

 

[opaltiger]

This is one of the major reasons that I don't identify with the feminist movement. They seem to believe that men and women are interchangeable. They should have equal rights, but there are differences between the two - namely, in this case, that the man wasn't pregnant and just didn't undergo huge convulsions and have a nine-pound baby emerge from his rectum. It takes time to recover from childbirth. It does not take near as much time to recover from your wife giving birth to a child.

Who are you to say how long it takes to recover from childbirth? If a mother, having recently given birth, prefers to go back to work immediately while her partner looks after the baby, who are you to say that's not allowed?

There should be a set amount of parental leave, which the parents can divide up as they wish.

Edit: re: the word: the reason the word is 'feminist' is of course historical. Throughout its history the feminist movement has been about achieving the equality of women with men. And you know what? It is still, in the vast majority of cases, about that. Women are not nearly as equal in society as everyone seems to want to believe. I can't help but think that all the people saying "oh, I don't identify as feminist, I identify as ~equalist~" or something similar are just using that as an excuse.

 

[Harlequin]

This is one of the major reasons that I don't identify with the feminist movement. They seem to believe that men and women are interchangeable. They should have equal rights, but there are differences between the two - namely, in this case, that the man wasn't pregnant and just didn't undergo huge convulsions and have a nine-pound baby emerge from his rectum. It takes time to recover from childbirth. It does not take near as much time to recover from your wife giving birth to a child.

Parental leave after having a child isn't about recovering from birthing a child. If the mother wants to go back to work (say, for example, she works in an industry where being out of work for months is damaging) straight after birth why can't her husband (or wife!) get the time off instead?

 

[Eloi]

This is one of the major reasons that I don't identify with the feminist movement. They seem to believe that men and women are interchangeable. They should have equal rights, but there are differences between the two - namely, in this case, that the man wasn't pregnant and just didn't undergo huge convulsions and have a nine-pound baby emerge from his rectum. It takes time to recover from childbirth. It does not take near as much time to recover from your wife giving birth to a child.

If I were the wife of a pregnant lady, I would want to accompany her throughout her pregnancy to make sure she's okay and so I can wait on her needs. Who knows what would happen in the 40 or so hours I'm not there during the week. What if she falls down a flight of stairs while I'm at work or something like that? What if her water breaks and we don't make it to the hospital on time because I had to drive 15-20 minutes from my work place to our house in order to drive her? What if the child learns to walk while I'm away? And so on. So I do believe any person with a pregnant partner should be allowed to skip work for a few weeks to accompany them.

 

[Pwnemon]

Or we could concentrate less on paternal leave and why it's good and more on the fact that the feminist movement wants to remove the differences between men and women completely.

 

[Eloi]

Or we could concentrate less on paternal leave and why it's good.

You brought it up, Pwnemon.

and more on the fact that the feminist movement wants to remove the differences between men and women completely.

How so? And what's the problem with that?

 

[Zhorken]

Or we could concentrate less on paternal leave and why it's good and more on the fact that the feminist movement wants to remove the differences between men and women completely.

Why not, though? Even if there are some actual biological differences that generally make men and women think a bit differently, the vast majority of the divide comes from artificial gender roles ingrained in our society, and I see no reason it wouldn't be a good idea to get rid of those.

EDIT: And as opal said in another thread somewhere recently, I'm always pretty skeptical of any study claiming to have found such an actual biological difference, since there's so much potential for bias there.

EDIT 2: Also Pwnemon you're the one who brought up in the first place that women giving childbirth makes maternal leave make sense and not paternal leave; you can't really go "oh well that's not important" when we tell you why you're wrong.